JimP Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 JimP - wait a bit longer. The design has progressed a little more. The last image was V3, I have just finished V5. I have also designed the jig block. Next job is to produce two manufacture models, showing the progression of the bends. Unfortunately, with no workshop, I cannot try this out for you first. Yes, a little force has to be applied to push the lure eye through. This prevents any chance of the lure slipping off. Also, any load applied will close the snap tighter, giving more security. The V5 design allows the snap to be compressed/manipulated without wire ends sticking your thumb. Dave I was able to produce a crude model. Without the correct tooling I could not get the gap correct to allow an lure eyelet to pass between the wires. I was using .024 stainless steel wire which is very close to your design. Keep us posted, an interesting project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 @ V-Man Very interesting as JimP stated. Please do keep us informed. As I stated earlier is that I do not use a snap swivels, but I do use split rings. The main reason why I don't use the snaps during actual fishing is because years ago the snaps were at best very weak. As you and I have talked about, your best catches is only going to be as good as your weakest link of your tackle. I need to quote that. This leads me into another thought. I almost know that once your design is completed you will test the design. This information is what I would like to know. I also suggest a pull stress test and a sudden impact test as you and I have discussed in the past. I have did the math since I did the last test, because I'm doing it again on other materials and techniques I'm looking at using. The math comes up to about 750 psi. of sudden impact. This maybe off some because I can't remember the number exactly. Once these test are completed I will post my findings in a new thread. The reason for my over engineering of baits is because of losing fish of such large sizes due to inferior materials. Many tears have ran down these cheeks. Take Care Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 DaleSW - good post. Yes, when I am set up to build a few of these, I plan on doing the tests that you mentioned: There will be a 48 hour constant load test of 20Kg (44Lb). This is a severe test that My lures must pass. It is designed to test the pull-out strength of lure eyes and it does cause distortion of the eyes. Because the quick release snap is open ended and made of the same SS wire, my confidence in this test being passed is far from 100%, but I will find a steady pull figure that works. The shock test will be new to me, but something that I have been planning to do in future. I will start with 1Kg dropped from a height of 1 metre. This will be an impact speed of 4.4m/s (10mph). Id does not sound like much until you drop a brick on your toe. The weight and/or the height will be increased to find the limit. I will perform the same tests on shop bought snaps for comparison. The design is complete. The length of the snap is comparable with shop bought, at 11mm length. It is going to be fiddly to make, but I think do-able. I have sent the design to JimP, who is going to have a go at a build. I would always prefer to do the test build myself, but I have no shop at the moment. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Mark, further to your original post, yes I think using a snap with a split ring does alter the performance of a bait, and sometimes significantly. Like a lot of guys, I like to use something that allows me to change baits quickly without re-tying knots while fishing. I usually remove the line tie split ring from commercial baits and use a quick-change alternative. Crosslock snaps don't do it for me because they just won't fit on some baits, especially ones with cupped lips. What I settled on are the Norman Speed clips that are basically a small split ring with an extension that allows you to open them with finger pressure. I like them because they are small, about 1/2" long, unobtrusive, and symmetrical. And I've never had one break or slip off a crankbait. I fish a lot of small bass crankbaits and how you connect to those can be really important to their performance. That's not to say you'll never catch fish with a split ring plus a snap on the bait. I was throwing a new commercial crank for the first time that still had the split ring on and just used a Norman Speed clip. It caught lots of fish like that and not so many when I removed the split ring. That's just anecdotal testing but I put the split ring back on that bait and have happily used it that way ever since. We must keep the Fishing Gods happy, even if it turns out to be just stupid superstition! But my general rule is that you are better off if you choose a method that works for you and stick with it for consistency's sake. That helps you make rational decisions about what works and what doesn't. That said, I know that tiny little differences in a bait can be the difference in catching fish or just hauling water. So I'm not above a little tweaking here and there to experiment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBarlow Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Opps: Guys don't use the word "p o p" in your post. The software will convert it to "Plaster of Paris" as in line five of the original post. To "Plaster of Paris" on a split ring is not a good idea. I was wondering about the "Plaster of Paris"...LOL! I have access to many different types of snaps and I use the Duo Snap. I almost always use a Duo Lock Snap when I go fishing. Small fish to 20Lb Pike I have never had a duo fail. It lets me change lures all I want without having to re-tie. If there is a split ring on the lure then I just leave it on and clip the snap to it. It is difficult to tell a difference. JB Edited November 18, 2015 by JBarlow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I wonder if you hook up with a 30+ Striper in a fast (class 1-2 rapids) moving mountain river, just how well will they hold up. I also fish with light line compared to the fish size. We chase and wear them down. I believe in these conditions I will stay with a straight tie to a ring. For other species in different conditions, I may give them a try tho. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I posted the original question because I wanted to know if my lazy way of testing cranks by hooking a snap to the split ring already on the bait was giving me skewed results, not to advocate for using both when you're fishing. I typically tie directly to the split ring when I'm fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 This thread took several turns and diversions, for which I apologized for getting over enthusiastic with a line of thought. To answer your original question from an engineering point of view, the snap on the end of the line provides the forward motion to the lure at a point contact and with such free movement that it cannot inhibit or affect the lure. Attaching the snap to a ring which already offers the above free movement, simply makes the movement even more free if that were possible. The form of attachment that is considered the most effective, is tying direct and yet this is the most restrictive method of attachment. The weight of the snap and ring has been mentioned, but again, they have no effect on the performance of the lure. The weight of the snap and ring is totally supported by the line when the lure is in motion and therefore has minimal effect on the lures action. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Mark, ...is your knot sitting tightly around the wire loop or you're using some sort of a fixed loop knot like the "Rapala Knot" ? The latter was created to let the lure move absolutely freely , just like with being attached with a round bend snap like the DuoLock , ....otherwise I can only second to Dave's post above , ........greetings , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I most apologies also. However I was trying to state originally that a straight tie to a bait does hamper the movement. With a ring it will not in my opinion. Adding a snap it will hamper the action only in the weight (very little for what that is). This is where I left the question, I think they are a weak link. This is not scientific, just 50+ years of fishing and watching the reactions of baits. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 My take on the "freedom thing"... The limpness and flexibility of the line has to be significant vs the rigid metal of a clip.. Best with a Rapala knot as Dieter says That being said, i use a snap when im lazy too... But most of the time i tie strait on For testing, maybe tie a short leader to each bait the night before and change them out with a snap on the main line on the water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Again, I asked because I use a snap to water test multiple cranks, and it's easier than retying for each lure test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Absolutely no difference in lure action if utilizing a Rapala knot OR a matching round bend snap like a DuoLock , ...snaps only get into the game when using micro lures less than 1 1 1/2" in length , I'd say , ...might not even be in terms of swimming action , but solely buoyancy issues . Greetz , Dieter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) If you really wanted a quick way of tying on lures for testing purposes, why knot (pun intended) use something like the top of a drop shot swivel? Make an overhand knot at the end of the line, for security. Just have the drop shot keeper (you could really cut off the swivel part, but it might be easier to have something to hold) on your testing line about 5 inches up. Run end of line through split ring or clip or omega or wire loop, doesn't matter, whatever you would fish with. Then end of line back into the drop shot line keeper. The knot at the end will keep it from slipping out. NOT for fishing for any means, but a quick release way to test multiple baits without adding weight that may affect action if attatched to the lure. If you don't use a loop knot, just run the line twice through the split ring or whatever, and you won't get the effect of a loop knot. Edited November 23, 2015 by clemmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawkman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 If you really wanted a quick way of tying on lures for testing purposes, why knot (pun intended) use something like the top of a drop shot swivel? Make an overhand knot at the end of the line, for security. Just have the drop shot keeper (you could really cut off the swivel part, but it might be easier to have something to hold) on your testing line about 5 inches up. Run end of line through split ring or clip or omega or wire loop, doesn't matter, whatever you would fish with. Then end of line back into the drop shot line keeper. The knot at the end will keep it from slipping out. NOT for fishing for any means, but a quick release way to test multiple baits without adding weight that may affect action if attatched to the lure. If you don't use a loop knot, just run the line twice through the split ring or whatever, and you won't get the effect of a loop knot. Good idea! Wouldn't have thought of that. Perfect for my bath tub testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Be ok in the pool too. Sadly I can't do any testing right now. My pool is empty while they work on adding the hot tub. I am so looking forward (I hope) to sitting in the hot tub on Christmas eve sipping a cranberry glug and ducking down to warm up. My wife actually got a prescription from here doctor for a hot tub. We still have to pay for it of course, but its untaxed as a medical expense. LOL. Well, part of it anyway. We expect a full report, along with pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 No selfies thankyou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm more interested in how cold beer goes with a hot tub at Christmas in Arizona! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 An old half crippled fat guy in a hot tub. I didn't know I was spending Christmas at your house Bob. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hope it is a BIG tub, Christmas TU meet coming your way Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hope it is a BIG tub, Christmas TU meet coming your way Dave No testing baits in the hot tub. Don't want to have to explain how a hook got "there"! Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just turn off the heat and you have a bait tank!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The imagination just gets out of control here. Nope, I don't need nightmares. But I have ours turn down and I'm using mine for the swim test. All's fair game. Chemicals are a concern tho. As far as using one this time of the year, I just don't like getting out when it's below freezing. I know I'm a sissy. And proud of it. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
