Vodkaman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Mr Salamander - I was impressed with the technology that you have used. My guess is that you are using PIC technology. This is something that I have wanted to get involved in, but never got around to it. I have designed a circuit for a solenoid vibration, but I am going to test the silent magnetic field idea that Mike and I have discussed. If this works, it will greatly simplify construction. I am also going to use the conductivity of the water as a switch, so everything happens automatically and no power is wasted. I will also have to figure out some way of monitoring the magnetic field, so that I know it is working. Of course, I could just fit an LED, ramped down with a high value resistor to keep the current usage down. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Can a radio receiver be put into one of these lures, so your favorite heavy metal band's music could be broadcast from the lure? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Salamander Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Well that was fun to watch! The charger leads and magnetic switch... Clever clever!! I have 2 questions... Where is that river? And how do i get there? Thanks. The first video was at the "Vaal river" in South Africa and the second video was about 110km downstream at "Bloemhof dam". Thank you, Slimy Salamander, Your post is most welcome. It has helped to validate one of my customers claims. They buy a larger battery powered version I call my bass bug. According to them, catfish were blowing up on this lure. They love to fish at night time and the first time they tried the lure, they said it actually shocked them how aggressive they as the poll was practically yanked out of their hand. They sent a picture of a 17 lb. catfish caught. I will not say I didn't believe them, It's just that most people I know that fish for catfish, use chicken livers or live worms and I didn't have any other reports of this kind. In one of my early posts, I stated a concern regarding intellectual property now I wish I could remove it because I have learned there a many people, such as myself that are making vibrating lures. I am thankful for TackleUnderground.com, because I will save a lot of money by not pursuing the idea of having a manufacturer make my product. Basically, I was working in a vacuum and now my eyes have been opened to the work many others are doing in this area. So, in short I am extremely glad you have joined the discussion and I look forward to learning more. Michael Our catfish in the Vaal and Orange rivers in South Africa are very aggressive, so they will smash a lure and are easily attracted by vibrations. I don't think you should bother with patents, in the end you are better off spending the money developing your lures and on marketing if you plan on going commercial. Patents are worthless unless you have millions to spend on legal fees trying to protect your intellectual property. The only people that gain from patents are the lawyers. I think you should continue to do what you currently do and don't worry about others copying you, rather spend your time and effort on building a brand with a loyal following. I agree with JRammit. Very clever and I really like the drone flyover video at the beginning of the first video. Thank you. Enjoyed the video. It has been a long time since I saw someone jigger poling and I imagine there will be several that never have seen it. Jigger poling? Is that what it's called in the US, very interesting and I didn't know the technique was used in the US as well. Mr Salamander - I was impressed with the technology that you have used. My guess is that you are using PIC technology. This is something that I have wanted to get involved in, but never got around to it. I have designed a circuit for a solenoid vibration, but I am going to test the silent magnetic field idea that Mike and I have discussed. If this works, it will greatly simplify construction. I am also going to use the conductivity of the water as a switch, so everything happens automatically and no power is wasted. I will also have to figure out some way of monitoring the magnetic field, so that I know it is working. Of course, I could just fit an LED, ramped down with a high value resistor to keep the current usage down. Dave Thanks. I use an ATTiny microcontroller, but you can use PIC if that is your preferred micro. Solenoid vibration? Is that similar to a Linear Resonant Actuator (LRA)? I didn't read about the silent magnetic field idea you have, but I'll look for it and have a look, sounds interesting. My original idea was to switch the lure on automatically when it's submerged in water, but for the prototype I decided against it, because it requires some tuning to get it reliable and energy efficient. I was also concerned about electrolysis and corrosion that will take place when metal electrodes are used. It's still something I'm interested in, but for my prototype I wanted to keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 LOL! I think heavy metal would be a fantastic fish attractant opposed to the sound of say; Barry Manilow, which I'm certain could be a great fish/shark repellent. The electronics to a crystal radio receiver is very simple. I'm thinking it could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Salamander Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Can a radio receiver be put into one of these lures, so your favorite heavy metal band's music could be broadcast from the lure? Yes, that's possible. My lure can already vibrate to the rhythm of music, but the prototype doesn't have enough memory to store a song yet. I'll have to add memory and that takes physical space, energy and add costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Can a radio receiver be put into one of these lures, so your favorite heavy metal band's music could be broadcast from the lure? NOW we're talkin'! \m/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Salamander - the solenoid was just a coil with a moving core to create the vibration/click, rather than running a motor. The silent vibrator is the same without the moving core. I suspect that Magnetic fields alone may be enough to attract fish. It is a known fact that fish can sense electrical fields emitted by other creatures, and it is all the same thing. My first circuit design is using a 555 timer, but I am going to design around a 4093 quad Schmitt trigger nand chip next. This will allow me to build in the water switch. I have done a lot with touch switches in the past with the 4093. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Salamander Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Salamander - the solenoid was just a coil with a moving core to create the vibration/click, rather than running a motor. The silent vibrator is the same without the moving core. I suspect that Magnetic fields alone may be enough to attract fish. It is a known fact that fish can sense electrical fields emitted by other creatures, and it is all the same thing. Yeah, the solenoid with the moving mass is pretty much what a linear resonant actuator is, I got this awesome one from Jinlong Machinery and will test it soon: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7rrvJoqk51vRlF5VDhKMWFpVW8/view They only just started production on it, so could only spare me one sample, but it's a nice alternative to ERM's and more reliable and energy efficient. If you can make a lure that attract fish by electro-magnetic pulses it will be a winner, it will be small, very energy efficient and super reliable. ERM's and LRA's don't last forever due to mechanical failure, but a coil that generate electro-magnetic pulses will be very reliable. My first circuit design is using a 555 timer, but I am going to design around a 4093 quad Schmitt trigger nand chip next. This will allow me to build in the water switch. I have done a lot with touch switches in the past with the 4093. Dave Fantastic, would love to follow your project's progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Please forgive my ignorance Slimy but, in a larger lure, Is it possible to include a very small mp3 player? I know it may sound silly, but I've seen some really small mp3 players with rechargeable battery included. Could it be that the sound amplification circuit would be to large? Also, regarding the pumpkin seed shape of your lure, other than the motor vibrations, what is it that attracts them? As a kid, we use to catch catfish or the smelliest bait we could create. I had no idea catfish could be attracted to lures, until I was informed of it by the guy that used my lure. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Sorry, Vodkaman. I failed to address that last question, regarding the mp3 player, to you as well, since you two seem to be the most knowledgeable electronically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Also, regarding the pumpkin seed shape of your lure, other than the motor vibrations, what is it that attracts them? As a kid, we use to catch catfish or the smelliest bait we could create. I had no idea catfish could be attracted to lures, until I was informed of it by the guy that used my lure. Michael Im only farmiliar with channel cats, theyre opportunistic feeders, much like trout... If the prey is easy, they'll chase it down like rabid dogs!... If not, they scour the bottom engulfing anything that smells/tastes edible Ive caught plenty of catfish on lures, not trying.... But if im targeting them, im leaving the lures at home The video shows a different species, obviously more aggressive than what we're use to over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Mike - Nah, Salamander is the electronics wizz. I think in order to fully test the effectiveness of the lure, then a lure with no shape, action or coloring would be the way to go. Of course, if the water has enough clarity to bring the other features into play, then they may be necessary to get bit. This needs thinking about. I will be molding the electronics into a sphere for testing purposes. There is a catfish competition pond a few miles away that might serve the purpose. The water is so dirty that color and profile are eliminated from the equation. Also, I will be pitching my lure against 49 other guys over a fixed time, so the effectiveness of the lure will be reliably determined. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Dave, Will the other 49 competitors be using lures also? From what JRammit says, a lure might not stand up to other conventionally used baits, at least here in the US that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Mike - they will all be using a smelly liver type paste. If the bait cannot stand up to the competition, then what is the point. I don't expect to win, but if I can consistently achieve top 12 (25%) then I would consider the test as a success. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I can't wait to find out how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish_Hacker Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Can a radio receiver be put into one of these lures, so your favorite heavy metal band's music could be broadcast from the lure? BTW, Monkeys like Metallica. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/sep/23/monkey-music-tamarins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Dave, Will the other 49 competitors be using lures also? From what JRammit says, a lure might not stand up to other conventionally used baits, at least here in the US that is.Could go the other way hereFishing pressure is a huge factor, and one you should consider as contributing to the success of your vibrating lures Reminds me of a few city ponds i fished while living in Colorado... You wont see a tackle box up there without Berkley Power Bait inside (not the lures, the dough bait).. Trout LOVE that stuff! At times, it will outfish everything else.... Some of these ponds were small, and heavily pressured... There have been days i was practically fishing shoulder to shoulder with other fishermen..... While the Power Bait (what they were ALWAYS using) is a non contested, proven bait for trout, i would out fish them consistently using live minnows, sometimes catching my limit to their none On the flip side, ive been known to inadvertently piss off fly fishermen up in the mountain streams by out fishing them using Power Bait Just my experiences, take them for what they're worth Edited November 23, 2015 by JRammit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 It is the fishing mentality here, everyone fishes the same technique. Personally, I think that they are missing the whole point of man versus the food. To me, it is about coming up with a method that outfishes the next guy, the Indonesian angler does not see it that way. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Salamander Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Please forgive my ignorance Slimy but, in a larger lure, Is it possible to include a very small mp3 player? I know it may sound silly, but I've seen some really small mp3 players with rechargeable battery included. Could it be that the sound amplification circuit would be to large? Yes, technically it would be possible with today's technology. There are IC's with all the functionality like song storage and speaker driving capabilities built into a single chip, size is not a problem if you have the engineering skills and funds, look at Apple, they created an entire system in a chip for the Apple Watch and designing a small and compact music player like the iPod Nano is probably an afternoon's work for them. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that on my own, but with enough time and funds anything is possible. Designing a waterproof speaker that still play music clearly underwater might be a challenge since the density of water vs air will most certainly impact the sound of audio waves. I don't think playing music under water will attract fish though, it will likely frighten them away. You can always test it by putting one of those small MP3 player in a ziplock bag and throwing it into the water with an underwater camera and see what happens. Also, regarding the pumpkin seed shape of your lure, other than the motor vibrations, what is it that attracts them? As a kid, we use to catch catfish or the smelliest bait we could create. I had no idea catfish could be attracted to lures, until I was informed of it by the guy that used my lure. Michael In the river and dam where I fish for catfish they probably rely on 95% vibrations and 5% vision to locate prey. The water is very murky, so vision does not play an important role, that is one of the reasons they are not frightened away even-though I'm standing only 3m away from the lure. The technique for catching sharp-tooth catfish are different depending on their habitat and feeding habits. For example, in this I'm catching them in the river and there they primarily prey on small animals like birds, crabs, reptiles, amphibians and smaller fish, so I'm plopping a smallish pumpkinseed lure into the water. However, 110km downstream in the dam they almost exclusively hunt large prey fish like carp up to 3kg and there I use a large lures and splash my rod's tip very aggressively below the surface of the water as can be seen in this . The splashing will attract them from where ever they are hiding and they will attack the lure very aggressively. The sharp-tooth catfish is a predatory fish, but will scavenge dead prey as well. Most people around here use bait to catch them, but I find it boring and have more success on lures. Fresh bait at 2-3kg in weight works best for our catfish. Mike - Nah, Salamander is the electronics wizz. Thanks, but I'm only a hobbyist like yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I know I didn't explain well what I planned to do with the sound from an mp3 player. Yes, I might try music as a test, but my real thought was to create a steady humming sound and test different frequencies to see if there is noticeable differences in the way fish react. I liked the idea of an mp3 player because it can be programmed with what ever sounds I chose. The plastic bag idea gives me cause to go back to the bobber that I used with the 555 timer circuit. The fact that your system could possibly play music made me think of the mp3 player. Thank Mr. Salamander, you have brought a lot of food for thought to the forum. Thank you, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Mike - I have been thinking on the same lines this morning myself regarding pure sound instead of vibrations. This would drastically reduce the used current to nA, extending even the smallest battery life from a few minutes to several hundred hours. The solution is a piezzo disk. This is like a miniature speaker. You have to provide the sound frequency rather than simply switching on and off. You literally switch on and off 100 times per second, or what ever frequency that you desire. The 4093 circuit that I am currently working on will achieve this, as well as switching the sound on and off say 6 times per second and also do the water switch. I am really liking this idea, as there is no back EMF from the coil to deal with and the battery life means that there is no need to make the batteries replaceable, simply two body halves soft glued together. You see how ideas can be generated, even from a comment made as a joke. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Salamander Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I know I didn't explain well what I planned to do with the sound from an mp3 player. Yes, I might try music as a test, but my real thought was to create a steady humming sound and test different frequencies to see if there is noticeable differences in the way fish react. I liked the idea of an mp3 player because it can be programmed with what ever sounds I chose. The plastic bag idea gives me cause to go back to the bobber that I used with the 555 timer circuit. The fact that your system could possibly play music made me think of the mp3 player. Thank Mr. Salamander, you have brought a lot of food for thought to the forum. Thank you, Michael Ahh, yes I misunderstood your plan. I think you have a solid idea and it's worth testing the humming sound to see what effect it has on fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I can see it now...accepting the Award for best sound track in a fishing lure.... The big question will be, Academy Awards, Grammys, or Country Music Awards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 LOL! Perhaps a new category for the cool lure contest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_vandorn Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Here is a video of several solar powered lures and the battery powered vibrating cicada shown vibrating in a small tub of water. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
