Buzzin' Baits

[Vodkaman]

Yes, you may have lost the interest of a few, but I felt it very important for you to get this theory straight in your head. Perhaps next time this comes up, we can sort it out by email or PM.

 

It is time to move on with the thread.

 

Dave

[mark poulson]

I'm lost, but I'm still reading!

[m_vandorn]

LOL!  Sorry for the confusion, Mark. Dave and I have decided to continue the battery discussion outside of this forum. While the battery discussion is relative to future battery powered lure versions, it is not important for the current conversation. I will continue, later this afternoon, with more information related directly to this forum. 

 

In my next discussion point, I will provide information that lead me to believe a vibration / hum is a strong attractor of fish. I should have started this forum with the information because it is the reason I continue to work on vibrating fishing lures. Well, not only that but my friend, customers and I have had really good success catch fish with these things. So, stay tune.

 

Michael

[alsworms]

I'm lost, but I'm still reading!

 

 

LOL I was lost waaaaaay back when he said "Solar powered and battery powered vibrating fishing lures are something I’ve been working on" ......but it HAS been an interesting read! 

[m_vandorn]

Please allow a short story to explain why I continue to spend so much time on the idea of vibrating lures.

 

I have spent a good deal of my life on the idea of a vibrating fish lure. As a child, I would throw crickets on the water and observe the way fish get excited and strike even when they were not especially interested in the nice live worm I had to offer.

 

I always assumed it was the bug's vibrations that caused fish to strike, but over the last few years, of testing and observing, I have come to the conclusion that the vibrations were not, in fact the cause for a fish strike, but merely a powerful tool to draw their attention.

 

There are several observations and other information that has given be good cause to believe this way, which is the reason I continue to say, lure actions, lure designs and fishing knowledge are still very important.

 

When I made my first solar powered lure (See Picture Below), I went to a small pond and put my polarized sunglasses on, fulling expecting to catch fish by simply throwing it out on the water and waiting. What happened instead was, fish started gathering around the lure, looking up at it staring as if hypnotized. I’d move the lure, they would follow and again, sit and stare.  

 

Needless to say, I was disappointed. I assumed I just didn’t have the right vibration frequency or something. I could tell you all the things I tried to do to achieve the perfect frequency/sound, but it would take way too long and while getting a good sound is good thing, it is not the point of this post.

 

One day, I got together with my older brother and told him about my observations and, when I finished, he told me that my observations have proved, to him, a theory that he had. You see, my older brother, before he retired, was a certified underwater welder. He had a business in Florida and a contract with a company to handle maintenance on their ships and barges at a location not far from the Crystal River nuclear power plant. Often times they would be working on or inspecting the hull of a vessel and to do so, they had to have large flood lights underwater to see what they were doing. He said, there would be a large cable in the water to supply power to the high powered flood lights and, according to him, when power was running through that cable, a humm could clearly be heard coming from the cable. When the lights were on, fish would gather and swim around the cable. Sometimes even sharks would be drawn to it. Turn the power off and and they would go about their business and disperse.

 

He and his crew often wondered if the attraction of fish was due to the humm, or perhaps to a magnetic field that might be around the cable.

 

Over the last year, I did additional testing and observations by making a large bobber with a vibrating motor from an old cell phone in a simple 555 circuit inside. Making the circuit is something I learned how to do from a Youtube video. The type of circuit and how I made it is not important for this discussion. What the circuit does is provide an intermittent signal to turn the vibrating motor on and off. One on and one off would be a cycle. I did tests with different intermittent cycles, 7 seconds on and 7 seconds off, 3 seconds on / 3 seconds off, then very short cycles each less than a second on and off. During the longer cycles, the fish would come toward the bobber when the motor was on and go about there business when it stopped. When the cycles were very quick, almost as if a constant vibration, the fish would come and stay.

 

The bottom line:

Just like with my first very crude solar powered lure, the fish did not strike it or try to eat it, just as they did not attack the power cable or the vibrating bobber. By-the-way, I think a vibrating bobber is another product idea, but I digress.

 

Like I said in an earlier post, it was not until I started putting legs on my lures, making them look like and creating bug like action, did fish actually start striking the the bait on a regular basis.

 

So this leads to my final point about my lures:

The vibrating motor in my lures and the sound it makes acts as a fishing attracting tool. It is a tool that can provide a fish catching advantage for the skilled fishermen and, in the right condition, the beginners as well. A beginners, with just a little instruction, at a good farm pond, for example, can do quite well. I tell you this from experience. I had a great time this summer with my 7 year old grandson and 9 year old granddaughter using the Solar Popper and a couple other vibrating lures. I also have a good number of friends and return customers that absolutely love using these lures at farm ponds.

[m_vandorn]

I really should read through what I type before I post. Please forgive the many typos. Hopefully you can get the gist of what I posted.

[Vodkaman]

Very interesting read. So much work has gone into this project and I suspect that the development will continue for quite some time too for product improvement and future products.

 

I have written about the fish following a lure but not striking before. My theory, based on anatomical facts and realities, is that predator fish are genetically programmed to wait for a change of direction before striking. The explanation is, that the muscles involved with the change of direction and flee are powerful but tire very quickly. Thus, the prey fish cannot perform this movement more than once without recovery time. So, once the fish has changed direction, the predator has a much higher chance of success.

 

This is not a thinking process, but the result of evolution. It is the same reason why a prey fish will often sit motionless in the face of a predator. Evolution has taught the prey that it is best not to move, like a rabbit in the headlights, same thing.

 

Dave

[m_vandorn]

Behavior related to evolution is a very interesting subject to me. The observation you provide concerning prey and predator, adds yet another variable to consider when it comes to the action of a lure. It makes me wonder if this might be the reason a fish will often strike when you pause the retrieval of a lure. Could it be that they see the stop as a change in direction, or a needed rest. 

 

You are correct, regarding further development and new designs of my vibrating lures. I have many ideas in cue and a great deal more testing to do. Of course, that is the great thing about lure making as a hobby or a business, testing is always required and that is the best part. When I go fishing, I can always say to my wife, "I need to go do more testing and research. LOL! 

[m_vandorn]

I will how-to information tomorrow. It's late here and I need to get some sleep.

[JRammit]

I don't think the catching ability needs to be validated... Not in this crowd.... The application is more relevant here

Top water is the clear cut winner! Especially on a calm, glassy water day.. The ripples alone would be a "dinner bell" for fish

But what else???

A vibrating bass jig might raise eyebrows... For me, a vibrating worm weight would be attractive!

A suspending jerk bait that vibrates while suspending.....

I know down sizing this much would be quite the task... But if you made vibrating crappie jigs, i could pay you in fillets!!!

Or all these people with their "sinkos"... You make one of those plastic sticks vibrate... Caviar and Cadillacs my friend!

Im sure you have a few aces up your sleeve, hope i didnt let any cats out of the bag..... I cant help it, just the way i think

Edited November 17, 2015 by JRammit

[Vodkaman]

JR - correct, lots of applications.

 

The application that I have in mind is totally different and progressive, for my application here in Indonesian competition ponds, were hard lures are banned. And that is as a vibrating insert for an edible bait.

 

Dave

[JRammit]

Know what i need?... A vibrating duck decoy!

I know... Off topic... But now my wheels are turning

[m_vandorn]

JRammit, you are correct, there are many more possibilities for vibrating fish attracting concepts. I will say, except for the bobber idea, I never thought of having one for edible baits nor one for attracting ducks. You guys are really thinking outside the box.

 

There is a video of a product a guy made for soft baits, which is an idea I had quite some time ago, but decided to start first with hard lures. My idea, in the regard to this is a little different. I see no reason the motor / battery compartment can't be contained in a plastic vial and then used as an insert into a hollow squid type soft bait or other large soft baits. Below is a link to the video I referenced. Travis provided a link to it earlier in this forum thread too.

 

[m_vandorn]

To add to the above post about ideas and other possibilities, there are many different size vibrating motors as well. I've tested extremely small vibrating motors and larger one. I'm guessing the guy in the video is using a smaller motor because the amount of vibration is quite a bit less than the ones I use, but that is not my point really. I'm just saying the possibilities are endless.

[JRammit]

There already is a product on the market for the waterfowl application.... Its a simple floating disk placed in the middle of your spread to make ripples on a calm day (which is essential!)

Im reluctant to buy such a thing since it is useless on windy days.... Instead i cary a big cup full of small pebbles and just throw a handful in the water every now and then...... But eventually my arm gets tired, i stop, and ducks fly right by

I have a few old broken decoys that would be good candidates to attempt this on... I guess the first step is finding a motor

Maybe this doesnt belong in the discussion... M_V, if i can find the parts i need, i might message you if you wouldnt mind

[m_vandorn]

No problem, JRammit. You might also include Vodkaman, if he doesnot mine. He has more knowledge electronically. I'm a trial and error guy and I have no problem helping where I can. I'm sure, somewhere down the line, the knowledge gain will be good for me too.

[m_vandorn]

Prepping the solar cell and motor for installation in a solar powered fishing lure:

 

For those interested in making Solar power fishing lures, the following information will explain how I prep the cell and motor to achieve the best vibration effect. (Reference picture below) 

 

1. I carefully remove the solar cell and motor from the toy cockroach, making sure not to detach the lead wires from the solar cell. You will notice there is a thick adhesive on the solar cell. This is a good thing. Do not remove the adhesive. It will be needed to help secure the motor in place.

 

2. Carefully wipe the motor casing clean with alcohol. This will assure the double sticky mounting tape will be securely bonded to the motor.

 

Note 1: The vibrating motor is just under 1/4 inch thick and 0.64 inches long. The size of the motor compartment  should be 0.27 - 0.28 Inches wide and 0.86 - 0.90 inches long to assure enough room for the motor and wires. The compartment depth 0.27 - 0.28 Inches.

 

3.  To bond the motor to the solar cell, I use double sticky foam tape the same type used mount a picture on a wall. I bought a roll of the product made by Duck. I cut a 1/4 inch square piece of the double sticky foam tape and apply it to the motor and then adhere it to the stick adhesive on the solar cell. I also take a piece of the slick paper removed form the double sticky foam tape and place it on the solar cell just under the front of the motor so the spindle of the motor does not get stuck to the strong adhesive. (See Picture)

 

Note 2: The purpose of the double sticky foam tape is to allow the motor a bit of movement to vibrate against the side walls of the motor compartment.

Note 3: When adhering the motor to the solar cell, be sure to leave room in front of the spindle / out-of-balance wheel so it will not make contact with the front wall of the motor compartment and become jammed. The motor should go in with the spindle facing the front of the lure. This way the force of casting the lure will always push the spindle away from the front wall.

 

4.  Place a small amount of epoxy on the wires right at the solder point so they do not become dislodged from the vibrations of the motor when inside the lure.

 

Note 4: When adhering the motor to the solar cell, for best vibration effect, adhere the motor slightly more to one side of the cell than the other. This helps to assure the motor is resting against one of the side walls, thus increasing the vibrating sound. You can check for the sound by installing the assembly into the motor compartment holding in in place with your fingers such that you are able to expose the solar cell next to the light of a 100 W incandescent bulb or take it outside into direct sunlight. After you are sure the sound is strong the unit can be seal in place.

 

Now the motor and solar cell is ready to seal the unit in place.

[m_vandorn]

The information provided by Dave/Vodkaman regarding the genetic / evolutionary programming of predator fish has give me cause to think more about why certain retrieval actions and the pause of retrieval work well to draw a strike. For example walk the dog action (direction changes) seems to do very well and often times you will get a strike at the pause (prey fish resting). ,

 

To that point, I provided a prototype softail vibrating lure to my friend in North Carolina to use in his companies fishing tournament. The company, he works for, has a large well maintained body of water on their property. He tested various retrieval methods and ended up using a method that I believe validates Dave's theory. According to my friend, he could see bass following the lure. They would not strike just follow. When he pause and did a sudden jerk, causing a short change of direction, they would blow up on it. He said it was insane how well the lure work, but I'm thinking the appearance of a change of direction may also be key to his success. I say his success because he won the tournament by catching 27 bass, far above second place at 7 bass. He sent pictures of some of the fish he caught. You can see them in a collage picture which also includeds the softail prototype I provided to him.

 

Anyway, I find Dave's theory interesting because it also helps me understand how and why I will be able to get more fish strikes.     

[Vodkaman]

A complete lure system is what did the trick I reckon; The vibration to pull the fish in from afar, curly tail keep the interest up close and change of direction to induce the attack. 27:7 is pretty convincing!

 

Dave

[m_vandorn]

This post is about how I make contact springs and the spring I use for attaching softails to my lures. The stainless wire you can purchase on LurePartsOnine.com work great for this. The wire I use for this is 0.024" stainless wire.

 

First:

Select a drill bit with a diameter that will result in the desired spring inside diameter. It is important to wrap the wire around the smooth shank of the drill bit. Finding the correct size drill bit may take some trial and error because the inside diameter will not end up the same as the drill bit. It will be larger.

 

The drill bits I use for my springs are as follows:

>Larger Contact Spring - 13/64 inch

>Spring for attaching Softails - 1/8 inch

>I use a retractable ballpoint pen spring for the negative contact. I can get 8 pins for one dollar at Dollar tree. The 8 springs from those pens can be used to make 16 lures.

 

Second: 

Tighten the chuck of a drill on the drill bit making sure the maximum amount of the smooth shaft is exposed (See Picture Below).

 

Third:

Make a bend in the wire and slide it between the jaws of the chuck, assuring the wire will not slip out when winding the wire around the drill bit.

 

Forth:

Hold the wire, either by hand or with a pair of pliers adding tension while turning the drill bit to wind the wire around the drill bit. Assure each wrap of the wire is tight against each wrap (See picture)

 

Fifth:

Carefully release the wire tension.

 

Sixth:

Stretch the spring to achieve the desired gap between each wind then trim excess wire. 

 

Seventh:

Cut springs to desired length.

[Slimy Salamander]

Hi m_vandorn,

 

I recently designed a vibrating lure of my own and posted about it on a South African fishing forum. One of the members there informed me about your project and I though that I'll join here, because we share a common interest and I can assist you with the electronics of your own project.

 

Here is the thread I created on my local forum: http://sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=100731&forum_id=78

 

We don't do the same kind of fishing and our lures are completely different, but the basic principles apply to both our projects and I think we can learn allot from each other.

 

Fist of all, here are two videos I made of the fishing I do, called catfish calling:

 

 

 

Here is the video where I demonstrate the first prototype that I built:

 

 

I still have to make a video about my lure in action, but will hopefully get time to do it in a weekend or two.

 

My lure is programmable and if desired can be tuned to play a specific sequence of vibration waveforms, it also has a build-in battery and charging circuit.

 

Your lure is allot smaller, so fitting all the electronics into such a small space could be a challenge, but I'm willing to offer you my assistance if needed.

[JRammit]

Hi m_vandorn,

I recently designed a vibrating lure of my own and posted about it on a South African fishing forum. One of the members there informed me about your project and I though that I'll join here, because we share a common interest and I can assist you with the electronics of your own project.

Here is the thread I created on my local forum: http://sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=100731&forum_id=78

We don't do the same kind of fishing and our lures are completely different, but the basic principles apply to both our projects and I think we can learn allot from each other.

Fist of all, here are two videos I made of the fishing I do, called catfish calling:

Here is the video where I demonstrate the first prototype that I built:

I still have to make a video about my lure in action, but will hopefully get time to do it in a weekend or two.

My lure is programmable and if desired can be tuned to play a specific sequence of vibration waveforms, it also has a build-in battery and charging circuit.

Your lure is allot smaller, so fitting all the electronics into such a small space could be a challenge, but I'm willing to offer you my assistance if needed.

Well that was fun to watch!

The charger leads and magnetic switch... Clever clever!!

I have 2 questions... Where is that river? And how do i get there?

[m_vandorn]

Thank you, Slimy Salamander,

Your post is most welcome. It has helped to validate one of my customers claims. They buy a larger battery powered version I call my bass bug.  According to them, catfish were blowing up on this lure. They love to fish at night time and the first time they tried the lure, they said it actually shocked them how aggressive they as the poll was practically yanked out of their hand. They sent a picture of a 17 lb. catfish caught. I will not say I didn't believe them, It's just that most people I know that fish for catfish, use chicken livers or live worms and I didn't have any other reports of this kind.  

 

In one of my early posts, I stated a concern regarding intellectual property now I wish I could remove it because I have learned there a many people, such as myself that are making vibrating lures. I am thankful for TackleUnderground.com, because I will save a lot  of money by not pursuing the idea of having a manufacturer make my product. Basically, I was working in a vacuum and now my eyes have been opened to the work many others are doing in this area. So, in short I am extremely glad you have joined the discussion and I look forward to learning more.  

Michael

[m_vandorn]

I agree with JRammit. Very clever and I really like the drone flyover video at the beginning of the first video.

[Travis]

Enjoyed the video.  It has been a long time since I saw someone jigger poling and I imagine there will be several that never have seen it.