Vodkaman Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Fishon - I just had a quick look at a couple of videos. The Bobcad program looks pretty good, especially for the price. Specifically developed for the CNC industry too. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent I Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Vodkaman, thanks for the time estimates. It's tempting to go to CAD for lure building, for obvious reasons, but I've been away from it for a few years and it's easy to forget how long it takes to do lofted surfaces. Besides, it's really more fun to carve than it is to sit in front of a computer screen, and undercuts are no problem. that said, I think I may try a plug in Delftship (free ship design software...I also build kayaks), which, despite the inconvenient unit conversions that will be necessary, is easy to use and would generate accurate templates and give me a center of bouyancy and c.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 GEES....DID TORMACH JUST ANNOUNCE 3D PRINTING WITH THE 770......................................TAKE A LOOK BOB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Fishon - LOL. Rapid prototype has no place in this thread. The relevance was the modeling times involved with CAD. Also, when I start talking about my projects, it is hard to stop Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 dave, i think maybe it dose....what if you took that and made your 3d mold..........bingo... bango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Fishon - it is basically the same CAD model that I would send to a CNC guy. The only design differences are the undercuts and fillet radii. If I was designing for CNC, there would be no undercuts and I would choose my fillets to fit with the machining process. In fact, the machine operator and myself would have discussions about choice of radii and minimum cutter size. I would then modify my design accordingly. With RP, there are no machining limitations of draft and radii, I can basically draw a pretty model and expect it to print. There are however, other limitations that have to be designed for and thought about. If you get going on Bobcad, I can send you a simple lure model that you can load up and have a practice with. Dave Edited December 23, 2015 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 SURE DAVE SOUNDS GOOD....mid next month a computer will be on my bench..the owner of the shop wants all of us to be on the same page so times dont change per job...he wants me to play around with it to learn before i start to do programs with it...ill pm my email...thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 SURE DAVE SOUNDS GOOD....mid next month a computer will be on my bench..the owner of the shop wants all of us to be on the same page so times dont change per job...he wants me to play around with it to learn before i start to do programs with it...ill pm my email...thanks You also mentioned they might have mastercam is there a way to train on that? They have a good online coarse for it and it will help you understand how they think. After it will be much easier to cross over to bobcad. The only reason I say that is I have both but master cam is a home learning edition and won't post code. My Bob cadcam will and working with it after was a breeze. Have not found a good instruction book or coarse for my Bobcad. They will teach you but it could get costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yes, the Bobcad training materials seem a bit thin on the ground. What material there is, Bobcad wants to charge you HUGE $$ for. This is outrageous in my opinion. $150 here and $300 there, comprehensive training materials should be FREE! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 frank , our master cam is used up in the office by our engineers..they drop programs to a machine in canada. thats where our barrels and screws are made.there really complex with muilti leads..our bigger screws cost us 20k complete shipped to us...with money exchange at 35% .......... dave , we have 3 guys on the shop floor that are good with the bob/cad plus all the material to learn from. 3 cnc mills and 5 cnc lathes will all have the software mid next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Fishon - the model that I sent you will come across to Bobcad as a dumb solid. In other words, you won't be able to see how it was constructed. Feel free to ask questions. DAve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 ok dave i will..we are off till monday and ill ask about looking at it .before, i just upload it...what i dont understand about how it work is ..how dose it generate a print.? or a program...I have worked in 7 shops over the years and only three have cad/cam software.so this is why I know nothing about it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think you can find a lot of free help on BobCad start at this link search youtube vids on this guy Al Depoalo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 so you dont see a program .your drawing just makes the part...or the drawing generates a program then thats dumped to the machine.?and then you get to see it.? thinking just like master cad/cam software..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 you been talking to mark.,....... bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 This is why it is much better to take a coarse. You will learn how to draw what you need then make a boundary box which is a block of material you will machine. The next step is to program the machining steps one at a time. You have seen this many times before. You will add tools to the job one at a time and load the cutting perameters you feel comfortable with. For a mold it wold be facing roughing finishing and chamfer if needed. This sound simple but there are many steps to achieve the look you want. Thus the reason for the simulation mode. What you will get will be really close to what you see. Mastercam has a feature based machining that will do a lot of the work for you with the tools you give it, but them you are confined to what the computer thinks you want. Works OK on some 2d parts but gets really confused with 3D stuff( maybe me that's confused). Run times are long but for a one off some guys don't want to spend time programming something that might be changed. I have had bobcad for a few years now and saw many of there videos but until I took a class that showed me real life things to machine it never made sense. Now it is a world of difference. Importing files sometime can be a real challenge as sometimes details are lost but for them I guess you could find a video for that situatuion. So in short it does not just program for you, you have a large part in what is going on. I know you can draw in these programs but for the regular shop guys you will be getting a file like the one Dave sent you and you will work with it from there. But you will at times need to add lines and arcs to aid in machining so not sure if it a good idea to skip the learning how to draw part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Frank - yes, a course would be recommended to speed things up. Self training is possible, I did it, but wasted months looking for stuff that lesson No1 would have given me. Bobcad may lack the surface functions that will be required for lure design, as it is basically a simple tool for machinists. Dlaery may be able to step in and answer this question one day, but a bit early yet. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 No. Its easier than that. I just think it and CAD and CAM programs magically make the part P0P out of the machine. LOL. Bob, either stop using solvent-based materials, or invest in a respirator. Those fumes are doing funny things to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Mark and Bob - I remember when we first got CAD in the Aerospace office. One of the company directors wandered into the CAD area, after a few seconds looking around, asked, "So, where do the drawings come out"? - he was serious! Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 30 yrs in this trade. never , once have I used any cad/cam programs ..this will be a first for me.so with that said...bob, it will be interesting to see how you do your work...and I'm sure i'll learn a few things along the way..my mold I made on the mill will be the first that gets a stored program and cad/cam work done...its a hot bait but simple one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Mark and Bob - I remember when we first got CAD in the Aerospace office. One of the company directors wandered into the CAD area, after a few seconds looking around, asked, "So, where do the drawings come out"? - he was serious! Dave People who are fluent in computers have trouble understanding how something so "simple" can be so hard for the rest of us. My kids are perfect examples of that. They have programming so embedded in their hard drives (brains) that they seem to think in code. I, on the other hand, have never taken the time to learn more that point and click on computers, and now I'm so far behind I have a phone that's smarter than I am! Dave, you guys who do CAD for lures can use both computers and hand tools. I'm envious, but too lazy to try and learn a new language again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 30 yrs in this trade. never , once have I used any cad/cam programs ..this will be a first for me.so with that said...bob, it will be interesting to see how you do your work...and I'm sure i'll learn a few things along the way..my mold I made on the mill will be the first that gets a stored program and cad/cam work done...its a hot bait but simple one.... Learn it and use it, you will not be disappointed. Its a lot of work in the beginning but long term you will be more valuable to your company. And to the industry if you ever have to look for another job. Or start making molds!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 frank, it will be like a new begining for me..i have been paying more attension to whats going on and looking over the shoulder of others..i glad l work in a shop that the guys will show you and are not afraid to do that..most shops let you hang because of fear... mark, im no differant on a computer..point and click thats me ...but on a cnc its totally different ..but yet the same...lol... I hope the same guys talking here will be there to talk to when I start that cad stuff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I will always be here to help, but without Bobcad knowledge, all I can do is throw models at you, to practice importing and processing. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 frank, it will be like a new begining for me..i have been paying more attension to whats going on and looking over the shoulder of others..i glad l work in a shop that the guys will show you and are not afraid to do that..most shops let you hang because of fear... mark, im no differant on a computer..point and click thats me ...but on a cnc its totally different ..but yet the same...lol... I hope the same guys talking here will be there to talk to when I start that cad stuff..... Funny you mention that there is shops that don't want to let you learn a new skill. I was invited to a meeting for my local college machining tech Dept. We were talking over some things that the machining industry might want to see come from the college. One of the last statements was about weather some people don't want to teach others the way they do there job. It was pretty much unanimous that it does happen more than they want it to but change is on the horizon. If they want to let you learn then take them up on all they will help you with. Just remember even with these programs there is many many ways to get a job done. Some are faster and some give a better finish. You will need to learn things the way your mind works. We are not all the same and don't learn the same. After a year of using mastercam I still don't draw or program like most of the other guys in my class. But I get what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
