fishon-son Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 what are you using to bend your wires for crankbait and muskie baits...and what size wire for just bass and muskie baits...I see there are some special tools out there whats best...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Travis Posted December 11, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I don't use any special tools per say. I just wrap the wire around a finish nail then grip with vice grips and twist. I will either cut line tie clean or "barb" it. For bass lures I mainly use stuff from Ace (few blocks from my house) and I believe it is 19 gauge when I forget to order from McMaster Carr (0.041 302/304 stainless steel safety wire). It is 19 gauge.... Some of the ties in the red bin have the ends cut clean others left so I can bend one back to make the "barb". Edited December 11, 2015 by Travis 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I have "liked" Travis's work, it's very clean and uniformed. Very nice work. I'm going to throw something else out to you. I use what Travis uses and I also use "TIG" welding rod, in 308 stainless steel with a .045 diameter. It's harder to work with, but it's just another way to do the same thing. It's always good to be able to do something in different ways. Good luck, Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 hagend bender. the 0.51 attach can be altered to accept 0.62.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfflipper Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I use a modified apple peeler and 0.51 wire. Been using it for 10 years and it's still going strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted December 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 im wanting to use wire instead of little eye screws or hook hangers in a few crankbaits im carving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 im wanting to use wire instead of little eye screws or hook hangers in a few crankbaits im carving... Lots of very good threads on this subject. The two basic screw eye replacements are haywire twist and barrel twist. My preference is the barrel twist, as it allows more room for the glue, but most prefer the simpler haywire, which is also well proven. Both these are excellent search words to bring up a short list of reading material. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 If you want to bend hard temper stainless wire you really need a dedicated/designed wire bender. However, many of us instead use soft temper stainless steel wire which is much easier to bend accurately. When bent into a small circle as in a line tie or screw eye, soft temper stainless is plenty strong and hard to deform under stress. I buy mine from McMaster-Carr in the .041" diameter size for average size bass baits, .031" for baits less than 2" long.Here's a link: http://www.mcmaster.com/#304-stainless-steel-wire/=10783jd Practical advantages: you can bend it accurately with common hand tools, as Travis shows above. Also, you can tune a shallow crankbait with a soft temper stainless line tie much easier and without the chance of cracking the lure's finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) I've done some pull out test with wire set into 3/16" holes with D2T epoxy. I tried the twisted wire, and just a U shaped bend, with the ends of the U bent back at 90 degrees in short 1/8" ears. I broke the wire before I could get either the wire or the epoxy to pull out. Edited December 12, 2015 by mark poulson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Regarding to Marks post, I have a bait design that will not allow a long hanger wire so I tested 1/2, 3/4" & 1" lengths recently. I use super glue in a gel form because I tested it against 2 Ton Epoxy and found it to hold just as well. The 3/4" hanger mentioned earlier is in a twist form. I got sick last week and I forgot the hanger was in the shop holding 50+lbs of lead up for a week. Last night I finish the test by giving it a sudden impact test three times. Dropping the lead from a distance of 8" or greater. My point is that this technique is a good one that these people are suggesting. I myself did not believe that glue or a epoxy could hold standard wire or even more so stainless steel, but it does. Dale 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I use the same method as Travis, but i replace the vice grips with a cordless drill The drill chuck will hold the tag ends of the wire and twist effortlessly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osutodd Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Dale and Mark, Are you gluing these into hardwood or are these put straight into balsa? If it's straight into balsa, I'm putting a lot more effort into my hook hangers than necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 They will hold in balsa also for the typical bass crank applications. Some guys will insert a hardwood dowel then drill and glue and then of course the through wire construction. I think I end up doing through wire construction mainly on some of my baits but that is more about being able to pack the weight in for the specific design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 The D2T epoxy I use is stronger than either the lure body or the sst wire. It is a glue epoxy, designed to be rigid, with no creep. I glue them either into PVC decking, or PVC trimboard. I haven't done it in wood for a long time, but, when I did, I drilled my holes and sealed them with the runny super glue, which penetrated into the wood around the holes and made it much stronger, before i epoxied my hardware in. The epoxy bond to the drilled hole, and it's grip on the wire tabs, is stronger than the wire itself. I am using soft sst wire. I don't remember the gauge or spec. I bought it a long time ago. I have also epoxied Spro #8 swivels into semi-tight holes as hook hangers. I had one which got frozen, and when I tried to free it up with some pliers, the wire just twisted off without moving the epoxied-in barrel of the swivel. if you're confident about the epoxy/wood connection, as long as the sst wire has some sort of a 90 degree tag end to anchor it in the epoxy, you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 X2 to Travis and Mark. I have just started designing (carving) baits. But to answer your question I deal only in pine, cedar and poplar. The test I have done is in the weaker of the three (pine). The test was done in a straight pull down. These two people above have much more experience then I, but I have found that the gel super glue will hold its own, pun intended. To tell you the remainder of facts about my test is, the sudden impact test created 777 lbs.+ of stress as long as I kept it equal to or greater than a 8" drop. Hope this helps, Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osutodd Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 This afternoon I pulled apart a couple of baits I built for test purposes. Both were poplar dowels epoxied into balsa. On both tests the screw eye pulled out of the dowel after we were over 85 lbs. Since the joint between the poplar and balsa was stronger than the screw in connection, it seems logical that your method would be stronger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osutodd Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 One other thing I noticed on both tests was the screw eye starting to open up. Both had opened enough that it wouldn't have held a split ring. The twisted wire method stops this problem as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 The engineering is quite simple; it is all about the load spread over the glue contact area on the side of the hole. If you double the diameter of the hole, you halve the load per area. Also, a large, sloppy hole will allow a better chance for filling completely with epoxy. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) I agree that a sst wire embedded in epoxy is stronger than a sst screweye threaded into a bait, even if, as I do, you install the screw eye, run it back out and coat the screw's threads with super glue and run it back in, so the threads cut into the bait are stronger. That's the reason I only use heavy mono or fluoro when I throw swimbaits, so there is always some give in the system between the fish and the reel. Those 8" swimbaits have enough weight to give a big fish plenty of leverage to either open a hook, or cause the hook to pull out when they shake their heads, unless you can keep constant flexible pressure. I use straight heavy braid for Whopper Ploppers, but I have the drag backed off a little, and I thumb the spool if I need to. Edited December 14, 2015 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I twist my own line ties and hook hangers out of soft tempered sst wire using the barrel twist. In tests I've done using epoxy to secure the twisted wire into basswood the wood gives up before the wire or epoxy. The twisted wire ties were approximately 1 to 1 1/4 inches long with the hole being just larger than the wire tie. In larger baits you could increase the length of the wire tie and this would create a stronger joint. The barrel twist proved stronger for me since it allowed for more glue surface than the haywire twist. When I pull tested the haywire twist the joint failed at a lower pull than the barrel twist with the haywire twist more or less "unscrewing" itself. just my Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I've had twisted wire hanger unscrew, too, because I did too nice and even a job twisting them. I guarantee you won't unscrew or pull out a soft sst wire that's bent into a U with 1/8" bend overs on the tag ends. D2T is very rigid, and will hold those bent tag ends forever. And the U shape, vs the twist wire, eliminates the potential weak point created by bending the wire as it is twisted. Plus it's faster and easier. Did I mention I'm lazy? Hahaha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Just to clarify a error in my last post. The hanger that set for week was a straight hanger (u shaped) not a twisted. I wanted to take the variable of a twisted wire out of the test. I did test twisted barrel hangers later knowing that they would be fine, I had them in place anyway so why not test. I noticed that Super Glue called itself a epoxy. Therefore I wanted to find out just how strong it is. Knowing that a twisted wire in a glue set would be stronger then a straight one, which depends on how many twist you do with all variables being equal just how strong the twisted ones would be. My question was just about the epoxy' s strength, because of the claim. Knowing all materials have pores even if they are microscopic like metals SS being one of the smallest. These are so small that this was not a harmful variable to find the answer. The wood was a variable, because of a possible tear out from the stress. So I used the softness of the woods that I use (pine). I let them hang for 48 hrs., then did the sudden impact test. The epoxy' s did just fine, both of them. Because being new to creating baits I want to see everything so that I'm confident in what I'm doing. I have broke manufactures wire hangers and standard SS wire bought from a retail store and have distorted them. I'm not saying they were bad, I just wanted to find their breaking point so I would know what that point is. The old saying is "that I'm from Missouri", you got to show me. By the way V-Man the bucket that I used to hold the lead (thru all these test) finally gave up to science. It was a good bucket and I am going to have to find another. (I'm sorry I couldn't help it, just my humor.) It did break tho! Take Care, Dale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Dale - the tests are good. When you are pulling in the fish of a lifetime, the last thing you want to be wondering, 'is my lure going to hold up'. You want to savour the moment and respect the fish. Confidence in your construction just adds to the pleasure of fishing. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelhains Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Do you have any pics of your modifications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I do it exactly like travis does, except I bend the nail and put it into an electric drill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
