Wire Benders

[hazmail]

I reckon I'm with you Dave, well put.

Pete

[SW Lures]

I never took the test to the extreme that would have failures to any of the three. I guess I could have with the test equipment that I have at my disposal. But I did the test at home. They all did just fine, but knowing that a twist (barrel) would be more stronger, it's what I went with. But on very small baits that will not allow a bigger drill hole, it's good to know a straight hanger or tow eye will do the trick.

Have a good one,

Dale

[SW Lures]

Oh my, I just realized you comment about engineering Dave. I'm going to have a little fun now, but how I fell.

From the beginning of time the people who made things work did this from "trial and errors". The Engineers, took experiences passed along and put the knowledge into mathematics. I deal with Engineers every day, but in my industry they know nothing of how to "get it done". Example the Romans ruler.

But alas, I respect them for the knowledge they have and helps me in stress effect and such things. As long they respect my knowledge.

A topic for another category, but I couldn't help it.

Dale

[mark poulson]

I come from a construction background, where failure of components wasn't an option, or I'd have to redo something on my own dime.

I began building lures to replace a friend's large Pupfish lure that I broke, and then to replace two Triple Trout swimbaits he lost on consecutive trips, and couldn't afford to buy again. 

It took me a while to back off from the bullet-proof mantra I had when making those big jointed swimbaits, which need to be really stout to stand up to the violent head shakes from big fish trying to use the lure's weight as leverage to throw the hooks.  The hardware never failed from pulling out, but I was always concerned about it, so I erred on the side of stronger.

When I began making smaller baits, the heavier hardware I had been using was too big, so I downsized as needed, and still caught big fish successfully.  I realized that everything I put into the build was stronger than the line I was fishing with, and the baits were too small to put any real strain on the hardware during the fight.  Between the line and the rod, I had a shock absorber.

So how I build has evolved as I have built more, and different, baits, and I have learned a ton of stuff here on TU. In fact, most of what I know about lure making I learned here.

There probably is no "right" was to do most of what we do as lure makers.

There is really only what works for each one of us, and we all have to find that out for ourselves. 

[Vodkaman]

Travis - the loose barrel twist refers to the spacing of the loops. They are spaced out like the threads on a coarse screw.

 

As for harnesses, if I were just building a few for testing, I would drill some brass pins into a piece of plywood. If I were going to build a large number, I would drill the pins into a piece of 6mm brass plate and solder.

 

I have never used wire of the size you guys employ for musky lures. But if I did, I would build a set of jigs and tools for each job. Someone posted a video of a bend tool earlier today. This looks very similar to tools I have built before for bending wires, I think I even posted them on TU too.

 

Designing wire bending tools is not rocket science, although designing one tool that does everything requires some clever design. There are hundreds of videos on the subject on YouTube, look through a dozen and collect some ideas and build something. It might take a couple of builds to solve all the problems, but I would never pay $70 for a tool that I could make myself.

 

I have just designed a bunch of jigs and tools for welding and assembling windscreen and roof structures and panels for a car, so designing a tool to perform a particular bend I would consider fun.

 

Dave

[Musky0503]

I use prelooped .51 wire for my baits and a Hagen wire former

[mark poulson]

http://dubrofishing.com/

[Jordanlures]

I don't use any special tools per say. I just wrap the wire around a finish nail then grip with vice grips and twist.  I will either cut line tie clean or "barb" it.    For bass lures I mainly use stuff from Ace (few blocks from my house) and I believe it is 19 gauge when I forget to order from McMaster Carr (0.041   302/304 stainless steel safety wire).

 

It is 19 gauge....

 

 

 

 

Some of the ties in the red bin have the ends cut clean others left so I can bend one back to make the "barb".

 

 

@  Travis 

 

        Thanks Travis this worked out really well, save money and stronger anchor.

 

 

David J

[bass100]

I bend a 4 inch piece of wire in half and put the loose ends together in a vice and then I have a hook on my cordless drill that I put in the bent wire and pull the trigger.  You can do several hundred quickly.  Any hooks at the hardware store will work as long as they are long enough to put in the end of your cordless drill.  There are different size wire diameter hooks so choose accordingly.  I just use an 1/8" diameter wire hook.  It is a lot quicker and easier than my Hagens wire bender.  I guess you could also bend a nail and use it with your drill.

[BobP]

The comments on haywire vs barrel twists on wire are interesting.  I used to use barrel twists because I did them literally with my fingers on 190# stainless saltwater leader wire.  When I switched to soft temper stainless wire, it was just easier and neater to use vise grip pliers and do haywire twists.  The end product was also a little more uniform in shape and it was easier to size a drill bit for the holes in which I epoxy the hardware.

 

I believe that mechanically, the barrel twist presents more glue area and thus is probably stronger than the haywire, if the glue coverage is 100%.  But I've built more than a thousand bass crankbaits over the years and I've never once had an epoxied hook hanger or line tie pull out - regardless of which method I used.  So to me there's not much practical reason to argue either way.

 

I think a more interesting question is this:  Do you really need to thru-wire bass baits at all?  My experience has been that I can build in balsa without thru-wiring and end up with a bait that will be as durable, in a practical sense, as a thru-wired bait.  Yes, the undercoating and topcoating need to be first class to prevent water intrusion which is the primary reason why most wood baits eventually fail.  And I will make the screw eyes longer than in a hardwood bait.  But as long as the finish lasts, I've never had the installed hardware pull out of a bait.  You want to smack your balsa bait on the water to clear weeds off the trebles?  If so you will destroy it whether the bait is thru-wired or not.  I have nothing against thru-wiring.  I just think that it is not necessarily right to think you MUST thru-wire if you build in balsa.  JMHO

[SW Lures]

I may end up being wrong, but I feel the same way about through wire techniques as BobP has stated. I also found that straight loop type hangers did as well as the rest of the hanger types in general. Larger the fish species are, may have me sway a little.

Being new to wooden baits, I had to know for myself. I'm confident in my approach now because of my continuing curiosity and all of your opinions.

That's my maturing knowledge towards bait making and my two bits worth,

Dale

[mark poulson]

I wonder if the through wire technique was developed because of softer wire, or weaker glue, or.....?

[osutodd]

I think it would be pointless to put extra time and effort into making the attachment points more than 10-20% stronger than the split rings you're going to use. My experience is that the rings usually fail first.

[RayburnGuy]

I wonder if the through wire technique was developed because of softer wire, or weaker glue, or.....?

 

A lot depends on how the through wire itself is constructed Mark. It can be made in such a way that the through wire itself takes most of the stress and transfers very little to the body of the bait.

 

Ben

Edited January 11, 2016 by RayburnGuy

[mark poulson]

As I think about it more, one of the things that a through wire does is add some ballast up higher in the bait.  I've found that doing that makes a bait more unstable, as in makes it hunt.

I wonder if that had a lot to do with the success of some of the older wooden crank baits.

I doubt it was done intentionally, but it might have been an unintended consequence, especially since a heavier gauge copper or brass wire was what was available "back then".

[Musky Glenn]

It might have to do with the lack of epoxy to mount screws as we do. It could be they just didn't test screws as we do and "thought" they wouldn't be strong enough. Some times good enough IS good enough.

[woodieb8]

thru wire here on great lakes is stress on baits. running big lures at 5mph and 40lb fish striking can and usually will loosen screw eyes. then the thrashing in a net/leverage can hurt a bait.. I am speaking on muskies.

[bass100]

The only baits I don't use thru wire on are swimbaits for obvious reasons, but 100% everything else gets thru wire.  That being said I am using mostly resin and a couple PVC swimbaits  (no wood for me).  Although my baits are made for the bass fishermen I like knowing that a guy can use them for stripers, muskies, reds, cobia, peacocks, etc. 

[SW Lures]

@Bass100, I agree with you when we are talking about larger species. I will soon be giving my baits a go against 36"-50" stripers plus other very nice size fish species (hopefully). But I'm going after them with just wire hangers and toe eyes. I may be wrong and I'll find that out I reckon. But I do understand your thoughts about thru wire's......that's exactly what I want to know, whether or not.

@ Ray, you and I both understand expansion designs in pipe lines above ground (old school). This is just a very much smaller scale. That is a interesting opinion.....very possible.

Dale

[RayburnGuy]

With the through wire design I'm talking about Dale there's really no expansion. There is of course some bending moments and other stresses transferred into the surrounding wood, but the wire itself takes the brunt of the force applied by the fish. Embedding the through wire into a bed of epoxy will strengthen it even further. Once the fish is hooked you could completely remove the wooden body and still bring the fish to the boat. You have a direct link from your line through the wire to the hook. At this point the body of the lure is just more or less along for the ride.

 

I build lures for largemouth bass and don't use through wires even when building lures out of balsa. When using competition grade balsa I laminate a thin piece of basswood between 2 pieces of balsa. By doing it this way it gives me a strong anchor point to epoxy twisted wire ties into the strip of basswood. The weight gain by doing it this way is minuscule and I can't tell that it has any noticeable effect on the lure.  Not sure how this approach would hold up against muskies, but that's not something I have to worry about.

 

Below is a sketch of what I'm talking about. It is made from a single strand of wire and all eyes are twisted loops.

 

Ben

 

 

[SW Lures]

Principal is the same, the relief of stress that is placed upon a object. As in the wire, the wire at the lower hanger flexes to relieve the stress upon the horizontal wire.

Although I was yapping (virtual yapping that is) and having some fun. But as in the expansion joints of a "off set", the off set takes the stress and relieves it to the point of the horizontal line "X" line (contracting and expanding). "Y" line being the belly hanger. Or for that matter, visa versa can happen. Just sayin.

Just a different thought of the same principle. Yes I do agree that the wire off set to the belly hanger could allow relief to extreme stress, if designed properly.

Cheers,

Dale