pool 4 gold Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Morning, I currently powder paint a majority of my baits but I am looking into possibly going to createx. I can get a much finer detail is my hope in doing so. The issue I run into in the past is getting the paint not to peel off with my finger nail. I am curious what a guy needs to do as a primer base coat and also a seal coat to prevent the issue I have had in the past with the paint not sticking to the brass lure body and/or lead head. Any help would be appreciated greatly. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I haven't painted a ton of blades or spoons, but the ones I did paint I first scuffed the metal lightly with 400 grit sandpaper. Then painted being sure to heat set the paint after each coat. I then top coated them with DN S82 moisture cure urethane. Dick has specially formulated his coating to top coat the spoons he sells. It cures to a thin hard shell so it's not going to be as heavy as a layer of epoxy which can weigh the blades down enough that it makes getting them to start spinning a problem at times. Epoxy doesn't like sharp corners either. It wants to pull away from sharp corners and that leaves thin spots on any edges which can lead to lifting of the top coat. hope this helps, Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I use the same proceedure as Ben. The Dick Nite Fishermun's Lurecoat (i'm thinking the number was S81 versus S82) is a moisture cured urethane formulated to work on Dick Nite's spoons. He sells the urethane at a discount to Tackleundergrounders. I don't have the discount URL handy -sorry. This MCU works particularly well on spoons but there are other brands of MCU that also work OK. I also agree with Ben that epoxy doesn't work well for this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I use the same proceedure as Ben. The Dick Nite Fishermun's Lurecoat (i'm thinking the number was S81 versus S82) is a moisture cured urethane formulated to work on Dick Nite's spoons. He sells the urethane at a discount to Tackleundergrounders. I don't have the discount URL handy -sorry. This MCU works particularly well on spoons but there are other brands of MCU that also work OK. I also agree with Ben that epoxy doesn't work well for this application. Bob's right. I "poofed up" when stating it was the S82. Meant to say S81. The S81 is the moisture cure urethane and the S82 is the water based. Thanks for catching that Bob. Here's the link to the page with the discount to TU members. http://www.dicknite.com/TU_Lander.htm Sorry about the "poof up". Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pool 4 gold Posted December 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I plan to start on some crankbaits as well and I am curious if I can use the s81 on those as well as my top coat or better of just doing the usual epoxy on those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I plan to start on some crankbaits as well and I am curious if I can use the s81 on those as well as my top coat or better of just doing the usual epoxy on those. The short answer? Yes. It's a great top coat for cranks. The only drawback to moisture cure urethanes is they can start curing in the can due to exposure to moisture in the air. when the can is opened. I highly recommend reading up on the "tap the can" method of using DN. Just do a search forit using the search feature and it will tell you everything you need to know. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Personally, I feel using both epoxy and DN S81 is "gilding the lily". I use one or the other but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Personally, I feel using both epoxy and DN S81 is "gilding the lily". I use one or the other but not both. Must have misread the question again. I'm really batting a thousand on this one. Like Bob I see no reason to use both DN and epoxy for a top coat. On wooden lures I use epoxy to seal the wood before painting. After the painting is done I use either epoxy of DN, but never both of them together as a top coat. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnart Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 This is really good info and I plan on trying it. If I want to brush it on, any drawbacks This is great info and I plan on trying it. Is there any negatives to this stuff? Brushing it on works ok? And Rayburnguy, I did a search on tapping the can and it say negative results?? Do you have any other ideas of what to search, I played around with different wording and couldn't find anything. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Brushing it on works fine, but lately I've been thinning it with acetone and spraying it. That works much better for me since there are zero problems with bubbles in the top coat when sprayed. I use a Paasche VL with their mid sized nozzle to spray it. Just be sure to thoroughly clean the airbrush with acetone as soon as your finished. If you don't it will lock the needle up in your airbrush. There are some good posts about "tapping the can" at the link below. If you have any further questions just holler back and I will do my best to help. Ben http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnart Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Ben, I saw the posts and I appreciate you guiding me to it. Stupid question... I looked at the pic and are those washers being used with the screws and do you have to use the lexan? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Ben's link above did not work, so I have added this link for those wanting the information. Remember, the search function does not accept 3-letter words. The best search word for this subject is 'bloxygen', which is always mentioned in tapping the can discussions. You have to think out of the box when coming up with search words. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) To add to Dave's comment...best bet is to skip the search function through the website and just type in browser window. You can even search three letter words that way. Edited December 17, 2015 by Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Ben, I saw the posts and I appreciate you guiding me to it. Stupid question... I looked at the pic and are those washers being used with the screws and do you have to use the lexan? Thank you Not a stupid question. Those particular screws are some sheet metal screws like those used for metal roofing. They have a cup washer on them that compresses a rubber gasket to make the screw penetration in the metal roofing watertight. That particular type of screw is not necessary as most any screw will work. Using a screw with a rubber gasket will lead to small bits of dissolved gasket material being leached into the DN. This will be noticeable when DN is drawn from the can into a small container for brushing or spraying. For some this is a big issue. For me it's not since the bits of gasket will sink to the bottom and are easily avoided. This will stop happening as soon as the gasket gets a layer of DN cured over it anyway. If you choose to not use a screw with a gasket don't become alarmed if the screw leaks a bit in the beginning. The DN will cure and form it's own seal. I keep my can of DN in a plastic whipped topping bowl with a folded up paper towel in the bottom to contain any bit of leakage or if I fail to wipe the can completely clean after drawing the DN out. As far as the Lexan epoxied to the can that is strictly for reinforcement. The walls of the can are extremely thin and can be easily stripped out if the screw is tightened too much. Trust me. I know this from personal experience. That's why I came up with the Lexan patch in the first place. Here's a step by step for how I "tap the can". #1 Use sandpaper to roughen up a spot on the bottom side of the can where the Lexan will be placed. Do the same to the piece of Lexan. #2 Epoxy the Lexan patch to the can. #3 Once the epoxy has fully cured make a small hole through the Lexan and can. I like using self tapping screws for this since they will cut the appropriate sized hole and make their own threads. Be sure to turn the can upside down before making the hole or otherwise you will have a mess on your hands. #4 Thread your screw into the hole to seal it. #5 Turn the can right side up and make another hole in the top of the can. This one doesn't need the Lexan "doubler" since no liquid will ever reach it. All your doing here is making a valve of sorts to allow air pressure to equalize. Once the hole in the top is made I like to spray a couple short bursts of Bloxygen into the can to act as a "blanket" over the DN. This keeps moisture laden air from contacting the DN. Now just thread another screw into this hole to act as the "valve" and tighten loosely seal the can. Now when you get ready to dispense the DN just remove the screw in the top of the can and loosen the "valve" screw at the bottom to start drawing out the DN into whatever container you need. I try not to shake the can too much so the "blanket" of Bloxygen isn't disturbed which could lead to moisure laden air coming in contact with the DN. I don't know that this is completely necessary, but why take the risk? There seems like there's something I'm leaving out, but I'll be danged if I can think of what it is at the moment. If it comes to me later I will add it to the post. If you have more questions just holler back. good luck, Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Ben's link above did not work, so I have added this link for those wanting the information. Remember, the search function does not accept 3-letter words. The best search word for this subject is 'bloxygen', which is always mentioned in tapping the can discussions. You have to think out of the box when coming up with search words. Dave The way I worded the search was "tapping the can". Quotation marks included. I've had much better results using the search function by searching for phrases. Not sure why the link didn't work since I copied it from the page after it was brought up in the search. Ben Edited December 18, 2015 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loft Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Go to Google. Type searchword and th en type: site:.tackleunderground.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnart Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Thanks for all of that information Ben, I am eventually gonna try this stuff and will use this info when I do. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Thanks for all of that information Ben, I am eventually gonna try this stuff and will use this info when I do. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us My pleasure Fishnart. I think you'll like the finish you get from the moisture cure DN. Once you get a handle on how to keep it fresh the rest is a piece of cake. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Ben, Didn't you say you filed a small flat on the upper screw's shaft, so you only had to remove it part way to let air in? Or was that in another galaxy, far, far away? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Ben, Didn't you say you filed a small flat on the upper screw's shaft, so you only had to remove it part way to let air in? Or was that in another galaxy, far, far away? The flat on the screw! Knew I was forgetting something. It wasn't the top screw though Mark. It was the bottom screw that had a notch cut into it so you wouldn't have to take the screw all the way out and risk dropping it. Just cut a notch, or flat spot, about mid way on the screw to allow the DN enough room to run around the screw in that spot. Leave enough thread at the head of the screw to make sure it tightens, and seals, properly. Thanks for reminding me Mark. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 That's what friends are for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 That's what friends are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 When I use DN, I "flood coat" the lure quickly with a brush. I want to get the DN on fast in as thick a coating as will stay on the lure. It's almost the same as dipping as far as the amount that is applied and the need to drip off the excess after applying the DN. You do not want to be carefully brushing neat thin coats of DN onto a lure because by the time you get around to where you started, you will probably find the first area is already skinning over, which will cause a mess you can't correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 When I use DN, I "flood coat" the lure quickly with a brush. I want to get the DN on fast in as thick a coating as will stay on the lure. It's almost the same as dipping as far as the amount that is applied and the need to drip off the excess after applying the DN. You do not want to be carefully brushing neat thin coats of DN onto a lure because by the time you get around to where you started, you will probably find the first area is already skinning over, which will cause a mess you can't correct. That's pretty much what I do when spraying DN Bob. I spray it on fairly thick and then hang the bait with the lip facing up. This way any excess drips off the rear hanger. Spraying DN makes it go on in a much more even coat (at least for me) and you don't have to deal with any bubbles since there are none when the DN is sprayed. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pool 4 gold Posted December 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Thanks for all the help and ideas guys it made my curve over the weekend go much smoother. After reading past conversations I plan to go with the Dick Nite S81 the one thing I did take notice to was every video I saw a can of bloxygen. Would I be ok to go and put that into a ball/mason jar and then after each use give a 3-5 second shot of that product into the jar and seal it and be ok for storage. I saw the other way of tapping the can as well but I thought maybe I could get by with the mason jar+bloxygen and still not risk it curing in storage. Thanks again everyone for all the advise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
