Jordanlures Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Have been looking through old posts and read about the Bass Orenos and had a few questions, were they weighted and if so did they have a nose down inclination or sit level in the water, did they make suspending or were they all floating, have been building a lot of tango minnows of late and fell in love with these vintage lures, so it is off to the shop to build some Orenos, any help at all would be appreciated, thanks for the help David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I found this very informative history of the Oreno, which you will probably find useful. There was no mention of ballast, so I suspect that no ballast was included, which also answers another question regarding suspension. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) I've been into such vintage style lures for a long time , ..and I've found that any added ballast most likely doesn't do any good to such lure models sporting integrated diving planes such as "Bass Oreno" , "Lucky 13" and also "Rush Tango Minnow " . In opposition to added plastic or metal diving lips mounted and prodruding somewhere below the lure's chin ,these integrated diving vanes of such oldtime plugs do not protrude or at least only a little bit . ........thus the oncoming water pressure on retrieve cannot generate a lot of leverage around the line tie to let the the lure swing around to the sides to lead into the typical wiggle , ..... it's just enough power to move the lurebody ! It's enough leverage to let such plugs swim with softer action patterns and comparable slower frequencies vice versa modern lipped crankbaits , but if also belly weights would have to be moved by this lower leverage forces , it would significantly dampen the anyway softer action of those plugs even more . One may place ballast right into the center of gravity , where it would then act neutral , but I have never tried this, since there simply was no neccessity , .......only thing to take care of is to pick your timber material accordingly , ..not too heavy and not too light ! In theory a lighter material would come up with the best and most pronounced wiggling action , .....BUT it's diving plane might not "shoulder" into the water sufficiently to get the plug to perform , as the lure would rise up too far above the surface at rest ! On such plug one might try to place just a little weight below the chin to aid the diving vane to shoulder into the water, ........so far I had only done this once on one particular plug model(on suggestion of experienced guys) , which was a so-called "Bottlehead Plug" meant for striper bass fishing(works for European pike ,too). A heavier material would swim more sluggish , as a bigger mass needs to be moved by the leverage around the tow eye , .....also denser plugs are more likely to overturn and blow out , because their lack of buoyancy lets them swing around(capsize) further sideward , as they would not become pushed back to upright level that fast . Pick you timber material in a way , so that your "Bass Oreno" would come to sit level or just very slightly nose down at rest , about 2/5 to 1/3 of it's body diameter sticking out of the surface , than it should perform just right . Do the lure shape accurately , do not attempt to taper the tail end more pronounced in order to increase the wiggle , ......this way the rear end would get to lack buoancy and your lure would swim tail heavy , thus the diving vane might not shoulder into the water well enough ! Some years ago I had also made one overlengthy three hook "Oreno"(but keeping the diametre of the usual one) , .......this lure acts a lot more sluggish in the water , simply because the elongated body provides more guidance in the water , counterproductive to the "Oreno's" typical tail-shake(but yet still useful to fish for pike as a diving jerkbait). Please check this video of mine , the very last picture shows the level , how such plugs should swim at rest(in this case a "Lucky13" knock-off , though, but does not make any difference) : In another video I'm talking about how to work such such plugs , ....."Bass Oreno" has the special feature , that once jerked below the surface to dive down for a few inches , on slack line it would p-o-p back to almost the same spot , where it was located before , ......so particulary suitable to tease located fish to strike or to thoroughly work likely holding spots , ......on a straight retrieve it goes down to 1 1/2 to 2 feet sporting a very pronounced and somewhat irregular , tail-shaking wiggle . Needless to say, that such plugs require a certain grade of buoyancy , .......as far as I'm concerned , there are no sinking plug models , ..maybe by exception of certain sinking models sporting props fore and aft . Good luck , Dieter Edited December 26, 2015 by diemai 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Dieter, Dave; Well I was already out in the shop building when you both replied. I built and painted 2 and didn't think of the taper having that much of an impact so I built one short with a good taper and one long with a not so good taper and I will see if I can use different hook sizes to maintain a correct attitude in the water. Thanks for your help I always look forward to the two of you and your informative reply's, will give these two a test drive after the epoxy dries. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you both Thanks David J 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 It will be an interesting experiment, to see the effect of the different tails. When you build a new project, you must learn as much as possible. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Dieter, It is always fun to watch you work! Dave, I agree. I made a baby river otter, two piece wake bait, and learned that the soft plastic tail, which I had attached with a swivel and hitchhiker, needs to be changed. It swings too widely, and gets fouled in the rear treble, so I'll have to pull out the swivel, drill a slightly oversized hole in the tail, and embed a sst hitchhiker into the lure body, so the tail is prevented from folding over as far. And I thought I was being so clever! Hahaha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) @ Jordanlures Please report back about how your versions would swim , pictures would be of advantage , too , ......I'm always eager about possible new input ! BTW , ......here is another jointed "Oreno" version , put out by an obviously Latin American fellow lure maker , .....I really like this one , ..it's also on my "to-do" list for this winter , though in a bigger size than shown and sporting two hooks , off course . Guess , the downward curved tail of the rear section does it's share to generate that highly frequent wiggle ,....... an ordinary , symetrically spindle shaped "Oreno" body just cut into halves would not wiggle as much , but rather swim in a more typical wave pattern of such plugs(but naturally both of these swimming patterns would have an appeal to fish on their day !) : @ mark poulson Actually that "Chugger" video I had put together from dozens of pictures I had shot for a pictured "how-to" printed in a German bi-monthly angling magazine , ......must have been about 8 or 9 years ago ? Greetings , Dieter Edited December 26, 2015 by diemai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 @ Dieter Well epoxy is drying, but looks like we are do for 8 to 10 inch's of rain over the next 3 days so my test creek will be a raging river for a few days but that is ok, I will just build another few with different tails just to see which has the action I want, and I always enjoy painting them even if they don't perform as desired, the rejects go in my wifes craft room for decoration, she loves them , ha, so even a fail is a score with the boss, I am definitely living the life, will report back with pics and results thanks everyone for the help. David J 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) @ Jordanlures Nothing to do about Mother Nature , though , .....but honestly , ....lets hope , that there won't be too many wallhangers for your better half ! Good luck , Dieter Edited December 27, 2015 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 @ Dieter Built two more Oreno style lures, and I built two similar size plugs that you built in one of your videos, they have a dished face on an angle to the body of the plug, but I can not remember what you called them, just wanted to compare the action between the two, will post pic's after test drives. All wet here lots of rain and big light show.... David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 @ Jordanlures Can't think of the ones you mean , either , David , .......are these the jointed "Zig-Wags" , original by "Heddon" or the "RushTango" style with the nose portion extended to some kind of "funnel" shape and then cut down at an angle to make up for the diving plane ? I've just tried out so many different styles , can't seem to remember all of them at a glance ! Anyway , ....good luck with your versions ,...I just love these plug models of yesteryear , surely they still deserve their place in a lureanglers armory even today ,......and there isn't that much to it making them ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 @ Dieter They are similar to the vintage Hanson salmon plugs " shovel nose". Was just curious as to there action vs. the orenos. from a profile they are similar, and they look cool to big factor in lure design, well it sounds good anyway, will post pics when all done. Thanks Dieter to much fun David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 @ Jordanlures Can't think of any other shape now than a typical salmon plug with a tapered tail end and a cupped , approx. 45° slant at the head acting as the diving plane , .....I remember to have made two or three as well . Anyway , ....hopefully the rain in your place would stop soon so you could head out for a test run of your plugs , ...eager to hera about them ! Good luck , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 @ Dieter Had a chance to throw the Orenos today, I put pics in the gallery the extreme tapered ones had a wider wobble more of a swimming,and darting action than the more traditional cylindrical shaped one's, they had a tighter wobble, the smaller hook size on the tail end on the extreme tapered two, did give them the correct attitude in the water, the shovel nose had a very tight wobble and dove to 3 or 4 foot the oreno's only 2 feet or so. The dive and return to the same location was dead on, on all styles, I did notice that because of the nose down attitude when retrieved, when they encounter objects on the bottom, if you let them have slack line they will back out and not foul the hooks, do not know if they will catch fish but they look fantastic in the water. I have become addicted to these old style baits, they have a grace in the water I just don't see in the plastics, thanks for all your help Dieter. David J 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 These baits were all made from eastern red cedar " aromatic juniper " to be technical so the buoyancy is excellent. Just forgot to mention it above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 They turned out well and something I think would be fun to replicate. I haven't fished one before but always figured I would give it a try along with a few other older styles in a collector book I have. Never did as wanted to use a lathe and once I got the lathe never made any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 @ Jordanlures Had a look last night just before bedtime , so now I'm back . Really turned out well , these plugs of yours , David , ....I like the way , that you obviously play around with hook locations and size to overcome subtle balance issues . And that red cedar is a really well suited timber for the purpose , don't have it easily accessible over here , but a friend from TU had once sent me some samples and I had carved 2 deep diving baits from it . And don't you worry , whether they'd catch fish or not , THEY DEFINATELY WILL ,........especially the "Bass Oreno" and also the "Lucky 13" are around since generations of fishermen have thrown their lures into the water , .....and they're still being commercially produced and sold until this day , ..what more evidence for an appealing lure do you need ? As long as fish are orientated towards shallower water , such plugs are always a good bet . @ Travis Just give it it a go , you will surely be rewarded with some more great catching memories ,...this is the way how I started out , making copies after pictures in two or three collectors,-and other lure books , .....nowadays there are also countless sites in the internet displaying vintage lures , didn't have access to such back then . ...and I find fishing such plugs much more exciting , as you'd work them with rodtip manipulation , see them popping and gurgling on the surface and occassionally getting engulfed by fish's jaws in a great splash ,.........I ALWAYS have some vintage plug models in my tacklebag , at least during the warm season . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 @ Travis These plugs and the "Rush Tango Minnows" are all a pretty quick build especially if you become proficient with a skew chisel, I have about forsaken my plastic hard baits simply because these old wood plugs and baits that Dieter has gotten me hung on feel and look so natural on the end of your line, they have more of a swimming action, as opposed to a hard and fast gyration, I don't know how they will do out on a high pressure lake area, but the small mouth love the tango's in my small river here close to the house, but I would be willing to bet not many fish today have seen them before because most young fishermen ie. 60 and under have never fished them and most ask me what they are because they have never seen them, and they give you a taste of Grandpa's day on the water, anyway give them a try I would enjoy hearing and value your input on these old baits I know you have a better feel for different baits on open water than I do I don't fish the lakes much, good luck and thanks for the kind words but Dieter has been the inspiration on these. @ Dieter Thanks so much for your help, now it is off to the shop, I have about a hundred different styles, sizes and colors to build, the shavings will be flying for a while, so much wood, so little time living the life in the Ozarks David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I have no doubt they will work. Just one of those things that fell to the back of the list. I even bought a some metal hook hangers and screws and did have some small tack style "eyes" (I think they were from some old upholstery store). I come across a lof of these lures at various antique and junk stores in the area. Many of the designs would take no time to knock out on the lathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 @Jordanlures Looking forward to see somemore of your plugs in the gallery some day , ...guess , that I've gotta make some more ones as well , ...your "Shovel Nose" plugs look very inspiring to me ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 @ Dieter; Funny you mention it, I have two Orenos, one painted and one natural, two tangos one painted and one not, and two shovel nose, but they are the more traditional sharp taper salmon plugs, all of them are on the turner with epoxy drying, due to be dry in a few hrs, wanted to see if that porpoise action is just a property of the more cylindrical plugs or a cupped shovel nose trait , will not get to test them until Monday but I should be able to get them up in the gallery today or possibly tomorrow. I have been looking thru the Gallery at all the baits you have listed, that is quite an assortment, very impressive, am looking forward to your next bunch and how they test, Thanks for all your input. Keep the shavings flying David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 @ Jordanlures Out the door for my weekend shift, David , ....gonna reply throroughly Monday latest , ...greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 @ Jordanlures Just logged in from my work tonite , David , ....got some time to spare . I remember to have made two plugs sporting such "shovel nose" , but these are strongly tapered down the rear , just like salmon plugs . If my memory serves me right , these swam in a wide wave pattern without too much of a wiggle , ...don't consider this action to be very appealing to local pike , so I haven't thrown them much . But I'm sure , that rather fat bodied plugs with such cupped diving plane would come up with a good wiggle quite similar to a "Bass Oreno" . I've made similar , but yet shorter plugs , sporting a small tailspin , ......displayed in my personal gallery(sorry , can't provide a link right now using the crappy Internet Explorer here) , maybe , you have already seen them , .......tried so many things through the years . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted January 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 @ Dieter Sorry for not getting back but work gets in the way, I know you understand, anyway, the green shovel nose I have pictured in the gallery I had a chance to throw it in some clear water yesterday and I think you will like the action of this style if you build it, the silver and copper colored one has a lot slower action that I did not care for as well, the green one also dove between 3.5 and 4.5 feet deep with a oreno type action just deeper, the dimensions on the green one are 3" long, .75" diameter, a 45 degree angle on the nose and a dished out area .100" deep I set the line tie at lure center line, I suppose you might get it a little deeper with a higher positioned line tie but I have not tried it, although the current position seem to make it really stable, I did make and try two of the more traditional steep tapered salmon plug style and the more cylindrical has a more desirable action IMHO. I currently have a darter type plug drying down in the shop waiting paint, I am excited to see it in action, anyway if you decide to build one of these I would love to hear your results and opinion I personally like this plug and its action and will be building more for my tackle box, as always thanks for your help and it is always a pleasure I look forward to hearing from you.... Keep the shavings flying David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hi , David , Too familar with this , ....always too little time to spend with the things we like ! Thanks a lot for further describtions of the swimming action of your plugs , I appreciate this very much . Yet I do not think , that you could palce the line ties much higher upward than the center axis , you'd soon get into having the lures overturn , I reckon,.....many years ago I've been into such trials in order to get plugs to dive deeper , .......when overturning , I had tried to counterweight with belly ballast , ....no overturning anymore , ....but the wiggling action became dampened most significantly ! I aggree with you regarding the action of rather cylindrycal salmon plugs sporting a rather short taper versus plugs tapered almost over their entire length ,.......first type has the better and far mor pronounced wiggle , sceond one rather swims in a general "S"-pattern with only very little wiggle to the lure itsself , .....the longer the lure , the more guidance in the water and the lest wiggle . Anyway , both types of plugs have their space in the lure angler's armory , they'd just appeal to different species , ....the rather cylindrical version would be better suited for pike , bass and musky ,.....whereas the strong taper would be more suited for salmon and different kinds of trout , I guess ? Presently I cannot build any plugs(at least medium and larger sized ones) , since I ran out of lure components , namely screweyes , .....need to mailorder some new ones from the US , could take a little while to get to destination , ......anyway , still working on some different lures right now ,...and still there are a few other projects on my to-do list as well , ........like sinking glidebaits to be worked with reel handle cranks alone ,.........and special deep diving zander cranks for river currents , .......before the 2016 lure fishing season would start again over here May 1st , right now we have closing time , ....ponds are iced-up , anyway . But I surely do a version of your plugs , also wanna try a jointed "Bass Oreno" with a slightly curved rear section , as I had seen on YouTube , guess , that I had linked the video before ? So it might take a while before you'd see some new plugs from my own stable , ...........thanks a lot again , ,...best greetings , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
