RSullivan Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 So, I purchased a pair of Gary Yammamoto 5" Senko molds from Do-It. Specifically I bought the following statement on their web site hook, line and sinker: 'This IS “The Senko” not a knock off as you may find elsewhere. From bow to transom and every little rib in between it is to exact specifications. As we have done in the past we have teamed up with Gary Yamamoto and he has given us license to manufacture a do it yourself mold to create a bait with the very same specifications as his legendary Senko, one of the most popular soft plastic baits in history.' Imagine my dismay when I received the molds to see a 'Do-It' logo on the worm sack! So after the initial shock wore off I did open a package of my Gary Yamamoto 5" Senkos just to verify that they did not also have the 'Do-It' logo imprinted on the egg sack. I will inform you all that they do not! 1.) 'From bow to transom and every little rib in between it is to exact specifications.' Who's 'specifications' I wonder aloud? 2.) How can lures from this mold possibly catch fish? Won't the fish be to busy trying to read the logo on the egg sack? I feel much better now that I have been able to voice my disappointment to some one other than my wife (who does not care. REALLY) and my Dog's. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbread76 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Other than the logo do they match? I was ordering some of these as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 According to previous reports they are engineered to be exact but part of the agreement was that the logo must be present for them to have the license to manufacture the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but I would be pissed personally. The last thing I would want is the company I'm buying a mold from to brand the cavities, especially at those prices. What they won't tell you is they are not the first to have an exact match to that particular bait as Del @ DelMart has been selling them for years (without the branding on them) and I know the guys at BaitJunky's just put out a 4", 5" and 6" that are damn near exactly the same at the original senko. If you look at the pics they even have a real GYB Senko laying in their mold to show how close it is. Heres the link to the 5", $1 more than DoIt's with an extra cavity (5 cavity for BJ's mold) and it's not branded http://www.shopbaitjunkys.com/5-Stickem_p_646.html Edited January 9, 2016 by DaveMc1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I agree with Dave in that any manufacturers name on a mold would upset me, but you have to understand Yamamoto went to GREAT lengths to stop the replication of their Senko. Many letters and lawsuits were put in effect to keep this thing their own. In the end, if you have to put up with a "Do-It" logo on one of the best soft plastic baits ever designed as a means to keep from worrying about copyright infringement, I guess that's a small price to pay. Plus, I'm sure the fish won't mind. Just my 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawkman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Would it be impossible to remove the logo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbread76 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Does BJs have a laminate plate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSullivan Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 DaveMc1: I was being 90% sarcastic and 10% upset. I am not really upset that the logo is there, but rather that Do-it markets it as an exact replica. They do not say 'except we had to add a logo'. I sort of feel like I was had, but I still would have purchased it even if I knew about the logo. CBread76: As far as I can it is an exact match save for the logo. I did not take a pair of calipers to it though. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) I agree with Dave in that any manufacturers name on a mold would upset me, but you have to understand Yamamoto went to GREAT lengths to stop the replication of their Senko. Many letters and lawsuits were put in effect to keep this thing their own. In the end, if you have to put up with a "Do-It" logo on one of the best soft plastic baits ever designed as a means to keep from worrying about copyright infringement, I guess that's a small price to pay. Plus, I'm sure the fish won't mind. Just my For starters, Copywrites apply to intellectual property, not products. The only protection GYB has is a trademark on the name "Senko" The only way to protect the bait itself is a patent, which I have yet to see a patent on the Senko (there isn't one ) The reason DoIt placed their logo in the mold was at the request of GYB, so the people buying the molds wouldn't try to fill his bags with knockoffs and sell them as real Senkos, which is exactly why they actually added GYB in the egg sack of their own. edit: I missed in my other post that a common problem with the DoIt Senko mold is dents in the final baits, I believe they copied everything right down to the size of the gates used on GYB's production molds, which won't work for hand injection (a few people have fixed their molds by taking a file to the gates and opening them up a hair). You won't get that problem with the Bait Junky's molds. Edited January 10, 2016 by DaveMc1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Does BJs have a laminate plate? Shoot them an email, I bet it won't be too hard to get one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 For starters, Copywrites apply to intellectual property, not products. The only protection GYB has is a trademark on the name "Senko" The only way to protect the bait itself is a patent, which I have yet to see a patent on the Senko (there isn't one ) The reason DoIt placed their logo in the mold was at the request of GYB, so the people buying the molds wouldn't try to fill his bags with knockoffs and sell them as real Senkos, which is exactly why they actually added GYB in the egg sack of their own. Correct- good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Why would Gary Yamamoto give the ‘go-ahead’ for a project like this; a direct copy of one of his most successful baits? To find an answer, I first did a search for the GY patent for the Senko – no such patent. I searched for any patent by GY. Two patents surfaced, both expired. Both granted on the same day in 1981 and neither mention GY, one a skateboard ice blade D261168, the other a fishing lure D261169. As far as I can determine, GY has never got involved in the patent circus. If this is true, imagine the millions GY saved and the stress free life that he has enjoyed by not having to deal with patent lawyers and courts. There is probably a lesson for us all here. Around about the time GY would have been considering a patent for the famous Senko worm, he would have immediately run into problems, as there was already a Senko patented, basically described as a silicon carbide joss stick. Had GY managed to patent the worm, the patent would have run out a couple of years ago. So, we are all free to have a go at copying the GY Senko worm, one of the simplest designs ever developed. BUT, as the hundreds, even thousands of lure builders have discovered, there is a lot more to the bait than its simple shape, it is all about the density of the plastic/salt combination that provides that signature movement that fish find so attractive. It has been said many times that nothing beats the original. Back to the original question; Why did Gary Yamamoto endorse this Senko copy? The deal was, that Do-it can only use the name Gary Yamamoto and Senko in the packaging and advertising literature and the actual mold must carry the Do-it logo. For this privilege, the Do-it company will probably pay a healthy commission to GY, details of which we can only guess. This is a win/win for GY; the original Senko is protected by not allowing Do-it to use his names, he gets paid more money, the Senko gets free advertising and the original Senko will still always be better than anything produced in this exact replica mold. So knock yourselves out, pour your Senkos with confidence in the knowledge that you have paid the main man and he is happy. Now all you need is that elusive recipe. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 This is a general statement and not meant to inflame anyone but I think the whole issue is dumb, as stated there are exact to near exact molds that have been out there for many years now if you think that a difference of such a small scale between diameters or egg sack being at a different position and not the plastic formula and salt ratio then you need to keep buying GY senko's and filling his pockets. I will never buy a mold from anyone if branding is part of the final product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Gone2long - a very reasonable comment to me. Just for interest, I would really like to know the actual density of the Senko. Anyone out there with a Senko and a gram scale can PM me and I will tell you how to do the measurement. My guess would be 1.05gm/cm3. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSullivan Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Boy, I did not think may somewhat amusing post (to myself anyways) would open such a can of Senkos! I have weighed them. 5" Senko: 10.30 - 10.50 Gm. 4" Senko: 7.20 - 7.40 Gm. 4" YUM Dinger: 6.65 - 7.00 Gm. Of course we realize that the plastisol / salt / other ingredients mix is certainly the most important thing about a 'Senko'. Also important is the distribution of the salt when you shoot them. If your mix Is not uniform then the bait will not be balanced. Also, I am sure If you shoot them really hot the salt may have a tendency to sort of settle a little toward the side (gravity, the position of the mold when shooting) of the bait. This type of information is of course very anal of me to even consider and mention. On the other hand, this is a hobby. Shooting baits is somewhat boring for me (though I love fishing with my own baits), so while I am doing it why not attempt to make my stick baits as close to a Senko as possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbread76 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Another thing to wonder on the idea of plastisol, who's the producer of the material? Seeing as how he pioneered into Japan, is that the source? We all know how they're perfectionist. I've tried other stick baits, but nothing works, as we all know, like his Senko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Another thing to wonder on the idea of plastisol, who's the producer of the material? Seeing as how he pioneered into Japan, is that the source? We all know how they're perfectionist. I've tried other stick baits, but nothing works, as we all know, like his Senko. GYB formulates their own plastisol in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbread76 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 And there you have it. A proprietary formula. The only knock on the Senko is its durability, but nothing has its action. A confidence bait for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 im sure bondo will cover that logo easy....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 im sure bondo will cover that logo easy....... Why would anyone want to or why should anyone have to do that to an expensive brand new mold, especially when there are a few more cost effective options out there that don't have the branding on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 oh i understand dave..but it was a thought to fix it if you have that mold.....i dont so im good....i have 2 stick mold from bears that i use and im good with that....i dont fish that bait much..i know its a great bait but i have alot of great baits to fish first ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 And there you have it. A proprietary formula. The only knock on the Senko is its durability, but nothing has its action. A confidence bait for sure! Ah yes the proprietary formula think that's a non starter as everyone has proprietary formula and if it was unique it would have been reproduced already, as far as mix and settling everyone has been there done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 And there you have it. A proprietary formula. The only knock on the Senko is its durability, but nothing has its action. Really ? You may wish to learn varied material use before you make a statement that nothing has its action. You drink the Yamamota kool -aid but have you ever made 5-10 different formulas w/ various plastisols then watched them descend in 4-8' of water depth in a clear,indoor swimming pool w/ a mask and snorkel?You have to get under water to see the true action- not looking from above the water's surface. Then you go back and tweak those formulas and test again & again..Do you think/know that different size / weight of the hook used causes increased/ decreased action? Its takes time/effort ,$, initiative and determination to develop a successful formula.The bass have the final say and I assure you some mfg.'s have figured it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I have two Dels molds but had to convert them to side inject. They shoot perfect 99%. Baitjunkys seems like the way to go tho. Many #$-it molds are designed poorly and dont shoot well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbread76 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Really ? You may wish to learn varied material use before you make a statement that nothing has its action. You drink the Yamamota kool -aid but have you ever made 5-10 different formulas w/ various plastisols then watched them descend in 4-8' of water depth in a clear,indoor swimming pool w/ a mask and snorkel?You have to get under water to see the true action- not looking from above the water's surface. Then you go back and tweak those formulas and test again & again..Do you think/know that different size / weight of the hook used causes increased/ decreased action? Its takes time/effort ,$, initiative and determination to develop a successful formula.The bass have the final say and I assure you some mfg.'s have figured it out.I have yet to start my own process, but am looking into it. As far as the kool-aid yeah I drink it lol. Especially when I find them on sale. I've tried Yum Dingers and the Ocho and they don't deliver for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
