archery1 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 One of the reasons the gys works so well is the weight an softness of bait.. yeah sure they rip very easy but thats why they catch so many fish. Like small h said unless u have watched one f these drop in clear water and see how it moves an fall rate then u will understand better an no why the original wroks so well compared to these other big companies. I think anyones home made senks will work just as well if they get the softness and weight down. i have used bears,dels and settled on bobs 5 ' stik molds for now. And they all caught fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Cbread76 used a comment based on the general statement, ‘nothing moves like the original’, that has been repeated many times, even beyond the pages of this discussion, or forum, by bloggers and columnists beyond TU. I therefore think it is a reasonable statement to make. Smallmouthaholic picked up on this statement and makes a very strong case against the use of the general statement that ‘nothing moves like the original’. I agree, the statement is too general and unlikely to be true. A more specific statement would be that ’my Senko copy does not move the same as the original’. The big question is; can this be remedied? The whole point of the Senko is the weightless fall and how it moves in the water. So, let’s take a look at what affects that movement and figure out how we can replicate this movement and be able to modify this statement to, ‘My Senko copy moves exactly like the original’. The movement is controlled by only three attributes: Shape – the physical size, diameters, length, profile, all affect how the water moves past the lure as it falls and causes it to move in the eddies and swirls created. Shape is the easiest attribute to reproduce simply by making a mold of the original. Density – this is THE most important attribute because density alone controls the rate of fall of the Senko. The speed that the body falls determines the shape and size of the eddies that control the movement. Everyone talks about how much salt to achieve the right weight, but no one has bothered to measure the density. Once you know the actual density and how to measure density, this attribute is so simple to control. It is just a matter of controlling the ratio by weight, of raw plastic to salt. BUT, you need to find the correct ratio in the first place. Stiffness - how bendy is the original and how does your copy compare. This final attribute is probably the most difficult to achieve. Unlike the density that can be measured and calculated, the flex in the plastic can only be formulated by trial and error. The tools to vary the flex are available; different plastisols, hardener, softener, different grades of salt, beads and so on. Testing the attributes – the shape does not need testing, it is right or it is wrong. The density is easy enough to measure mathematically or you can time the fall rate and compare with the original. The stiffness too, is very easy to test and compare; hold in the same place and see whether both samples flop over the same amount. Swish the samples in water, do they bend the same. If all three attributes are matched, then the bait will move the same as the original on the fall. This is not complicated and given the multitude of discussions all over the internet over all these years, it seems no one has done the measurements and posted the proven results. Dave Edited January 11, 2016 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 i bet gray sits back and laughs at this crap....lol and thinks ...these boys read way into this to much...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Fishon - I am just responding to the stuff you guys are writing. You all (or mostly) seem bemused at the success of the Senko and wonder why. Many, like you, think that I over complicate the whole issue with a bit of engineering and science. What I am actually telling you, is that it is all so easy and straight forward and solve-able by any one of you with a gram scale, a plastic cup and an original Senko. I agree, if GY reads this, he will be wearing a BIG grin, I certainly would. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camrynekai Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) It took me well over 10 years to develop a true Senko knock-off.....to be honest with you all, the biggest hurdle to get over in order to achieve a perfect Senko copy, is to have complete control of every aspect the delivery system and cooling process. it took countless hours to build a pumping system that yielded perfectly mixed plastic and salt from the very first bait to the last drop of the batch while maintaining precise temperature control. Once I achieved that, I focused on the proper rock salt required (no flake salt). There is an over whelming assortment of different styles of salt....OMG i must of had 50 different kinds of salt and only two of them were hands down the winner for clarity and density while having the appropriate size rock to work with. Then on to the plastic...yup have tried them all found two blends that work out of the box with no required addition of softener or any other stabilizers and such. Now I have it narrowed down to the correct plastic(best off the shelf), the correct salt with a precision control of the salt to plastic ratio, precise temp control...now I can safely work towards tuning it all in. During the tuning process I notice that even though I have everything super tuned in and have precise control of every aspect of the delivery system the cooling of the injected plastic was to slow causing the salt to shift within the bait while cooling....this how ever did not happen on my first shoot of the mold...this only happened after the mold started to heat up. This was an easy fix...I just purchased custom production molds to fit my batch size. I was very naive in the beginning of my quest to make a perfect Senko copy and it was expensive!!! to say the least with a shit load of failures ta-boot. This very looooong and expensive process was worth it, now having everything tuned it is a dream to be able to consistently make baits that are in spec. bait after bait after bait....I couldn't be happier!! Edited January 12, 2016 by camrynekai 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrat69 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 holy smokes ... what a debate .... I suppose if one were to be fishing in 10 feet of water on a weed line ... the wiggle comes into play more. but if one were to skip a worm under a dock in a bout 2-4 feet of water ... wiggle may not come into play... I think the bass has more of "get out of here" attitude; "boom" 1 in my live well. With all of that said. Take Montes recipe. Shoot the Bait junky's molds. Done .. "happy dance" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowFISH Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 This thread is exactly why Senkos are the only soft bait I still buy!!! LOL!!! I CNC my own molds, pour all my own lead and softbaits - but even with being able to replicate that senko dead on from a form/size standpoint I know there is more to it than that... and I don't use them enough to put that much effort in!!! Good job to those that make them - seems so simple but I think camrynekai's post pointed out a very small and important detail - keeping the salt uniform once it's in the mold!! J. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) For me, it's all about what you want from your baits. I have the Do-It Essential 5" senko mold. By varying how I pour, I can get variations, with the same plastisol/salt/flake mixture. If I inject my plastic hot (345+-), the salt settles more to the belly. So does the flake. If I tip the mold so one end is higher, I get more salt in the other end, and a wacky rigged bait spirals on the fall like it has a nail weight. If I want a more even distribution of salt and flake, I heat the mix to only 325, and make sure my mold is cool before I shoot it. There are tons of things we as makers can do to make our baits behave differently. The fun is in trying different things. Edited January 13, 2016 by mark poulson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 that's great....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 This SUCKS BIGtime. It belittles the thought and effort people put into a discussion. MOST annoying. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 It's called a joke, but be annoyed if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 This SUCKS BIGtime. It belittles the thought and effort people put into a discussion. MOST annoying. Dave Absolutely!!You can lead a horse to water,but you can't force him to drink.Why even bother to show them where the trough is?? Many on TU want all the secrets/free info attained through $ and time invested from experienced MFGS. The typical gimme crowd doesn't have the respect to say a simple thank you for your helpful information while saving me $ and time.Unfortunately, it's back to "read only'' on TU. The self- proclaimed TU experts can carry on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Smallmouthaholic - Indeed. I keep posting because occasionally someone new 'gets it'. There is actually a very small number of members who follow what I write and a couple who I am in constant contact by email and Skype. We share our projects and detailed thoughts. This I enjoy and it is enough to keep me enthused. I am also prepared to put the time in to help individual questions and my PM is always open. As for the non-believers, those who think my ideas, theories and methods are tedious, well that is fine too. Just keep it to yourselves and stop trying to spoil the perfectly good day that I am enjoying. Dave 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Smallmouthaholic - Indeed. I keep posting because occasionally someone new 'gets it'. There is actually a very small number of members who follow what I write and a couple who I am in constant contact by email and Skype. We share our projects and detailed thoughts. This I enjoy and it is enough to keep me enthused. I am also prepared to put the time in to help individual questions and my PM is always open. As for the non-believers, those who think my ideas, theories and methods are tedious, well that is fine too. Just keep it to yourselves and stop trying to spoil the perfectly good day that I am enjoying. Dave Dave, I am one of the do-it and see what happens people. If something works, I try to figure out why afterwards, and apply that to my next bait. But I really enjoy reading your posts every time, and try to understand them and how they relate to the lures I make. I think we each come to our passion from our own unique point of view, and that gives us all something different to share. Bassinfool, My kids love that show, and used to try to get me to watch it. A lot of it is really funny, but I guess I'm too old to watch a cartoon for 30 minutes, unless it's Ren and Stimpy. I still miss the Looney Tunes! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Dave, I am one of the do-it and see what happens people. If something works, I try to figure out why afterwards, and apply that to my next bait. But I really enjoy reading your posts every time, and try to understand them and how they relate to the lures I make. I think we each come to our passion from our own unique point of view, and that gives us all something different to share. Bassinfool, My kids love that show, and used to try to get me to watch it. A lot of it is really funny, but I guess I'm too old to watch a cartoon for 30 minutes, unless it's Ren and Stimpy. I still miss the Looney Tunes! My wife enjoys giving me grief about watching Family Guy and South Park but they're funny to me. I guess working in healthcare for so long has warped my sense of humor and what I find funny many others don't. Like I said before, it was simply a joke. Sorry if some of you took it the wrong way, that isn't what I intended. The majority of my bait making experience has been a lot of trial and error (with a lot of errors) but that's helped me get where I am today making my own baits. I know a lot of you guys have years and years more experience than I do and I wasn't trying to make light of the immense amount of knowledge you all give out to members and asking nothing in return. Dave, I noticed under your profile pic it says you're located in Indonesia. Hope you're far away from all the going on's and if not, hope you have a way to get out safely. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV_Fishin Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 I've been lurking here for months. Simply just reading, learning and enjoying the information/pictures posted here. There seems to be one constant debate and that's senko's. How much salt? Glass media vs. Salt, weight and wiggle. So much time and effort has went into this already existing bait. Just imagine what could've came from that time and effort in terms of something new. Custom mold's aren't cheap, I get it. But sometimes you have to see if the juice is worth the squeeze. Has anyone here had any custom mold's made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) I have 170 custom CNC injection molds for soft plastics of which 45 are multi-cavity(6-12 cavities) w/ 18 new single cavity molds on the way 45+ custom CNC lead molds 98% of my molds are made by Chris Archer of Ultra-molds 1-You can read volumes concerning stick worms on TU 2-Then you can read all the threads concerning the various plastisols available today. Keep the Tylenol handy!! Edited for additional content Edited October 1, 2016 by smallmouthaholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV_Fishin Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 I have 170 custom CNC injection molds for soft plastics of which 45 are multi-cavity(6-12 cavities) w/ 18 new single cavity molds on the way 45+ custom CNC lead molds 98% of my molds are made by Chris Archer of Ultra-molds 1-You can read volumes concerning stick worms on TU 2-Then you can read all the threads concerning the various plastisols available today. Keep the Tylenol handy!! Edited for additional content I'm new here, but not to the fishing lure world. Folks can argue until they're blue in the face about what works and what doesn't. Just like underwear, what's comfortable for you may not work so well for me. I'm hoping to get a mold done but the trick is getting the funds and finding someone to work with me on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I'm new here, but not to the fishing lure world. Folks can argue until they're blue in the face about what works and what doesn't. Just like underwear, what's comfortable for you may not work so well for me. I'm hoping to get a mold done but the trick is getting the funds and finding someone to work with me on it. Custom molds are expensive and can be time consuming to finalize. Good CNC mold makers are always busy.Stick w/ store bought baits and save $ until you have the $ to create your dream bait. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV_Fishin Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Custom molds are expensive and can be time consuming to finalize. Good CNC mold makers are always busy.Stick w/ store bought baits and save $ until you have the $ to create your dream bait. Good luck! I'm in no hurry just yet. I'm still looking for an off the shelf swim bait mold I like. Any recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'm in no hurry just yet. I'm still looking for an off the shelf swim bait mold I like. Any recommendations? All of mine were custom designed that maintain central balance,won't roll-over on their side and have excellent tail action on the drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV_Fishin Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 All of mine were custom designed that maintain central balance,won't roll-over on their side and have excellent tail action on the drop. I can't seem to find a swim bait mold that fits what I'm looking for. I guess I'll have to keep looking or wait until I get saved up for a mold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 If you are just pouring for yourself, look at Lurecraft's silicone molds. They are open pour, and cheap enough to let you buy several, so you can pour enough baits for a couple of trips all at once, from the same batch of plastic. http://www.lurecraft.com/SILICONE-OPEN-POUR-MOLDS/departments/34/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angler in the making Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 I need help with dents in my senkos. I have the do-it molds senko mold and do-its plastisol. And every time I inject my mold, I have dents in my senkos. I've tried more pressure and injecting it at a cool temp. If anyone can help me please its very frustrating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
