cadman Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I have a question for you guys that pour lead. This comes up quite often, so here it goes. I've had many guys come up to me and asked if i would make a reduced pull pin, similar to one of the current threads running. So, I've looked into this and the price I got from a machinist was $2.00 each. This is a metal pin .125 diameter turned down to.078 +/- .008. I would put these up on my website. Would you as a consumer pay $2.00 each. All good and bad comments welcome. Please no profanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 What would be the difference between a metal reduced pull pin, and the teflon pins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big-D Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'd buy a couple for that price. They would serve me well for a few single-cavity pours. -D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 What would be the difference between a metal reduced pull pin, and the teflon pins? +1?? I am assuming the difference is that the metal will be able to be used in a standard .125 mold without modding or altering the pin to make it fit tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I assume you're talking about the top 1/4" or so, correct? That is what I had done, and what I ended up doing is cutting off the head as every mold I use it on is different. So I line it up that the reduced area is inside the cavity and right at the exit/entrance of the cavity it is back to full size to keep the lead from coming out. I have like 3 of the pins but I'd buy a few as back ups if you are doing something like I described. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 What would be the difference between a metal reduced pull pin, and the teflon pins? As I find out more and more about this, as much as I want this to be made out of teflon,for one it would be almost impossible to turn something on a lathe that small. So I also found that steel would be the cheapest alternative. With that said, I think the price point is high, and that is at 1000K quantity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 well I would be interested in a few if you get it done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) +1?? I am assuming the difference is that the metal will be able to be used in a standard .125 mold without modding or altering the pin to make it fit tight. Yes it would be a standard .125 diameter pin, turned down to .078 at one end. Edited February 2, 2016 by cadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I assume you're talking about the top 1/4" or so, correct? That is what I had done, and what I ended up doing is cutting off the head as every mold I use it on is different. So I line it up that the reduced area is inside the cavity and right at the exit/entrance of the cavity it is back to full size to keep the lead from coming out. I have like 3 of the pins but I'd buy a few as back ups if you are doing something like I described. Smalljaw you and I are on the same wavelength. Like your idea, I was thinking the same thing, where you might have to grind off some of the turned down end to fit multiple cavities, as the turned down portion of the pin might hit the hook shank first, leaving some lead past the weedguard hole. However this wouldn't be the end of the world, as you could just cut that portion of lead off, or customize a pin just for that cavity. With me going to steel, it would be harder to cut down or file. There are a lot of trade-offs with these pins. I was also thinking about a spring loaded pin, which we use in sheet metal template set-ups. I have a lot of options I am thinking of, problem is affordable cost......................Stay tuned. Edited February 2, 2016 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elken Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I might be interested in a couple so that I can retire the drill bit wrapped in tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EironBreaker Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Ted, I think you are on the right path with the steel pin. I wouldn't think it needs to go to the hook shank on all molds, as long as it is deep enough to leave a hole to hold the fiber guard in place. That doesn't need to be super deep and the pin could easily be ground off of fit the shallowest mold a person has but still work on other molds. Just need to set it so the step is flush with the edge of the cavity so you wouldn't have to clean up lead from the edge. Or a person can buy enough so you can dedicate the pin to that specific mold once you got it ground down to fit. Great idea! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkin Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Put me down for 20 of them. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I'd certainly take some if it comes to fruition. Didn't know what you guys were talking about, at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcbv Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I'd certainly take some if it comes to fruition. Didn't know what you guys were talking about, at first. I still don't know what you're talking about. Is this just turning a pin down on a lathe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
School Master Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I feel like 2 bucks a piece is pretty expensive for a simple operation like that. I don't want to undercut you Cadman, do you mind if I share my process? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Im still lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I still don't know what you're talking about. Is this just turning a pin down on a lathe? Im still lost This is what we are all talking about. Majority of all Do-It molds that take a weedguard, normally have steel pull pins that are used, or you can use the teflon ones you can buy separately. These are all 1/8" in diameter to fit the weedguard hole in the molds. Now many guys do not want to use a full weedguard, they might want to use 15 strands in their final jig. So if you decide to use less strands, it would be nice to have a smaller hole already in the jig head, so when you go to put the smaller weedguard in, it won't flop all around in the big weedguard hole that we normally have. Also the smaller hole would center the smaller weedguard in the jig head. So this is where an 1/8" pin, with a turned down end will make life much easier for those guys that want to do this. See attached picture. Edited February 4, 2016 by cadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I feel like 2 bucks a piece is pretty expensive for a simple operation like that. I don't want to undercut you Cadman, do you mind if I share my process? By all means let us see what you have. I'm not in this to make money, as there is not a big market for this. I'm just trying to help guys out, by making a one piece pin, instead of taping drill shanks and steel rods and so on. This is not an idea that is going to make me rich. Pricing is relative, when you buy small quantities, price is high. Even at $1 each, I think the price is too expensive, but I know what I want and I can design it, it's just I don't have the machinery to make it cost efficiently. Edited February 4, 2016 by cadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Now I got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Wouldnt a metal rod glued into a teflon pin work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Wouldnt a metal rod glued into a teflon pin work? Yes if: You could buy .078 or .060 straight pieces of Teflon? If the glue would hold from the high heat temp of the lead? You would have to drill a hole in an 1/8" (.125 ) piece of rod. This would be challenging considering the small diameter of the rod, and also trying to get the hole in the center of the rod. Everything can be done, it comes down to labor cost. For a one piece or two piece application, I currently have some tape rolled around the end of a a .078 diameter drill bit shank, and it has worked fine for my application. Would be nice to have 50 pieces, so I wouldn't have to stop and take the same pin out of every jig, when you do 50, 100 or 1000 jigs. Very time consuming. Edited February 4, 2016 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
School Master Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 OK here is what I do to make reduced diameter pins. The nice thing about this process is once you get it dialed in and tightened down, you can repeat the process many times in just a few minutes. You do need a couple special tools, but for the most part people have access to them somehow. You need a drill press and an end mill (see picture 1). End mills are used in CNC machines mostly, but they can be purchased many places. Any size will work and you really don't need a high quality one either. 1) Clamp you end mill in a vice on the drill press table. I clamp mine at a slight angle so the mill can have clean access to the pin. 2) Put your pin or just a piece of 1/8" rod in the drill chuck and tighten. I use the pins so they fit perfect but sometimes it can be hard to grab the bigger head of the pin. 3) Lower your press down and adjust the vice to approximately where you want it. It's a good idea to mark the bottom of your rod with a 1/16" mark so you can get it pretty close. 4) Clamp your vice down, turn your drill press on and simply lower the pin onto the end mill. To start maybe you want to do a couple test pieces to get it dialed in correctly. Once you get it where you want it, you can simply mark the depth on the pin and repeat the process. You can easily do 50 in a couple minutes. I did this years ago and I'm still using the ones I have. I quickly did one on a much larger plastic rod just to show an example everyone could see. It works very well, it's fairly simple and it makes a much better product than the ole plumbers tape and drill bit. Please feel free to ask more questions, I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) OK here is what I do to make reduced diameter pins. The nice thing about this process is once you get it dialed in and tightened down, you can repeat the process many times in just a few minutes. You do need a couple special tools, but for the most part people have access to them somehow. You need a drill press and an end mill (see picture 1). End mills are used in CNC machines mostly, but they can be purchased many places. Any size will work and you really don't need a high quality one either. 1) Clamp you end mill in a vice on the drill press table. I clamp mine at a slight angle so the mill can have clean access to the pin. 2) Put your pin or just a piece of 1/8" rod in the drill chuck and tighten. I use the pins so they fit perfect but sometimes it can be hard to grab the bigger head of the pin. 3) Lower your press down and adjust the vice to approximately where you want it. It's a good idea to mark the bottom of your rod with a 1/16" mark so you can get it pretty close. 4) Clamp your vice down, turn your drill press on and simply lower the pin onto the end mill. To start maybe you want to do a couple test pieces to get it dialed in correctly. Once you get it where you want it, you can simply mark the depth on the pin and repeat the process. You can easily do 50 in a couple minutes. I did this years ago and I'm still using the ones I have. I quickly did one on a much larger plastic rod just to show an example everyone could see. It works very well, it's fairly simple and it makes a much better product than the ole plumbers tape and drill bit. Please feel free to ask more questions, I hope this helps. Very good tutorial. The problem is many guys don't have a drill press, along with a drill press vice and, many guys don't know what an end mill is. Note: Guys on this forum don't take my remark as personal, I don't want you to think that I am questioning anybody's knowledge. But I am sure that there are a lot of guys that are not handy. School Master, you must have been in the trades as I currently am an engineer and understand what you are doing. I myself do not want to make these, as I am way too busy. Also since I am a perfectionist, if I offer these to guys on my website, these have to look like something someone would want to buy. I am not criticizing your work, as many fixtures and quick fixes I make for myself are functional, but very crude. I do like your idea though. Edited February 4, 2016 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
School Master Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I wouldn't want to sell these either. For sure not high quality enough to sell on your website. I wouldn't want to make 1,000 either. It's just something I came up with so I figured I'd pass it along. I guess most people probably don't have access to a drill press. I've always been in and around shops so I take it for granted. Truth be told I actually made mine on a mill too, so they are much more accurate but I showed the drill press because I figured much more people could get to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcbv Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 This is what we are all talking about. Majority of all Do-It molds that take a weedguard, normally have steel pull pins that are used, or you can use the teflon ones you can buy separately. These are all 1/8" in diameter to fit the weedguard hole in the molds. Now many guys do not want to use a full weedguard, they might want to use 15 strands in their final jig. So if you decide to use less strands, it would be nice to have a smaller hole already in the jig head, so when you go to put the smaller weedguard in, it won't flop all around in the big weedguard hole that we normally have. Also the smaller hole would center the smaller weedguard in the jig head. So this is where an 1/8" pin, with a turned down end will make life much easier for those guys that want to do this. See attached picture. Thanks cadman, now I get it. If you can't find anyone to do it for less than $2 a pin let me know and I can do it for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
