rufthumbs Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I made a balsa crainkbait covered it with super glue to seal the wood before initial swim test...wood seemed fine(still hard from super glue) long after being in water(many months)....I then decided to apply bob smith 30 min epoxy and let rotate on turner for a few hours( I wanted to try painting on the epoxy as oppose to the supper glue hoping it wouldn't take 649 layers of a white createx base coat). This morning I decided to take a look and the top coat feels "squishy" on the sides of the bait when you pinch the bait...the epoxy has hardened but it seems like there is a layer of air captured between the epoxy and balsa wood...I'm really not sure what I did wrong....did water get through my super glue seal or did I have air bubbles in my epoxy that prevented it from adhering to the wood correctly? Was the problem temperature related as the epoxy set up? My gut tells me it has something to do with water getting in the plug somewhere but any help or pro tips would be greatly appreciated as I'd like to understand what I did wrong... Ira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Sealing with CA glue is fine for a quick swim test, but it is not meant as a top coat to keep water out, as you have used it. My guess would be that your bait is heavy with water. You have to remember what CA glue was developed for; the battle field. The idea is that it can bond skin to close battle wounds very quickly, without the need for stitching, to prevent infection. The glue coating also has to be able to breathe, to prevent the wound rotting under an air-tight coating. Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufthumbs Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Thanks Dave...I will make sure I'm sealed better then before testing the bait. I appreciate te swift response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimP Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 rufthumbs: Being a curious cat, if I had the lure you mention I would have to take a knife and cut it open to see whats going on inside. You will probably answer your question. Let us know as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybait Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I posted something similar to this quite a while back. I had not put my lures in the water but I had turned out some balsa wood Zara Spook type stick baits. (Cigar shaped about 6 inches long) I sealed them with D2T after adding hook hangars and weights and they were ready for a water test. They felt squishy to and it was just the flex of the D2T over balsa, there was some give to it between my fingers. I noticed when I was putting hooks on it for a test, one of the hook points went right through the D2T. I had to fix that pin hole before testing in the water. I asked TU about it and several members said that was normal and just to keep going. I did and they were right. Balsa is soft and you can feel some "give" to it when you squeeze it between your fingers even after one coating of 30 min epoxy. Another coat of epoxy after painting will help the strength. I had not used super glue prior to the D2T. Also I would comment that this squishy or springy feel of the bait is much more pronounced on a larger bait. It was very obvious on the long sides of the stick bait I had made and would probably not be obvious on a small 1.5 square bill type bait. Compare the springy feel of the side of a soda can compared to the stiffness at the ends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufthumbs Posted February 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 After my previous reply I imediately cut it open because I wanted to see where/if water got inside...I could not tell where water got in and could only see where the glue soaked through. I've thought about it a lot since...I remember being extremely liberal with the epoxy when I put it on that specific plug thinking that I want it water tight...lol ...some of the others that I epoxy clear coated over paint in the same batch have some very isolated "squish" to them but it's nowhere near as pronounced as the bait of topic...and then some of the others are very stable and solid...I used different amounts of alcohol through out my epoxy adventure which I plan on correcting and not use so much the next time. So the next round of plugs I'm going to skip the glue and lightly seal then with epoxy after the halves are put back together before I swim it to see if the plug is worth painting or not I think I was just excited about putting them on the turner I had just made and thought the turner would make up for my lack of patience with trying to stretch the epoxy between too many baits. Bottom line...I'm a greenhorn when it comes to building a plug and I've got to get it through my thick head that patience and precision can't be sacrificed if you want the bait to be right. I appreciate all of the input and ideas...I will get it right because every go round I make new mistakes to learn from but many I have avoided just by lurking and reading posts from those who have gotten it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) When you're using a 2 part epoxy that you plan to thin with denatured alcohol, be sure you mix the two parts together thoroughly before you add the alcohol. If there is any unmixed material when you add the alcohol, it will bond to the unmixed material, and prevent the epoxy from curing. As Ben would say, beat the snot out of it when you're mixing, and then thin it with the alcohol. Edited February 16, 2016 by mark poulson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimP Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) rufthumbs: Balsa is one of the woods that vary a lot in weight, even within the same board. Most of the lure manufactures select the denser woods. You might like to compare different boards from the available selection next time you buy Balsa lumber. Heavier is denser. Linked below is a chart that list the properties of many domestic and imported lumbers. Might be handy to compare different woods. An example the listed density of Balsa is 6.8 to 12.5 lb/cu ft and that is quite a spread. Meaning that the amount of ballast that is correct for one lure might need a different amount of weight to perform the same with an identically shaped lure body. Western Red cedar is 21.5 lb/cu ft and will be much more consistent board to board. Something to look over and think about. Here is the link Wood Physical Properties Edited February 16, 2016 by JimP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I've got to get it through my thick head that patience and precision can't be sacrificed if you want the bait to be right. If your going to build baits these are words to live by. As far as the bait being "squishy" I'm at a bit of a loss for how that could happen seeing as how you first gave the wood a layer of super glue. I use the same process and the super glue gives the soft balsa a hard shell. Now keep in mind this is a very thin shell, but it does toughen up the outer surface of the balsa. If the epoxy hadn't cured properly it should have been sticky in the "squishy" spots. If this happens it can usually be cured by applying another coat of properly mixed epoxy. I'm not completely sure of the reason behind the problems you had, but by properly mixing it and applying even coats you shouldn't have these problems in the first place. Another thing to remember is that you can't get too aggressive with the number of baits you can coat with epoxy. Some of the guys here say they can do 3, maybe 4, baits before the epoxy starts getting too stiff to apply evenly and it still have enough flow to self level after putting it on the turner. I've learned that I can only get 2 done safely and efficiently. The reason for that is that I spend a little more time making sure the epoxy is mixed thoroughly. I'd rather get 2 baits done that I have no doubts about than risk doing more and then worrying about them to see if they cure properly. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I think the 'squishy' thing is to do with shape only. The weakest shape is a flat sided body. There is no resistance to depression. In car design, this is called 'oil canning' and we design against such features. The next weakest shape is the cigar shape. It has some lateral strength in the curvature, but still is easily buckled or deformed. A body shape with double curvature is the strongest shape and very difficult to deform. The strongest engineering shape of all is a sphere. The closer your body emulates spherical properties, the stronger it becomes. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 The strongest engineering shape of all is a sphere. The closer your body emulates spherical properties, the stronger it becomes. If that's true I'm getting stronger everyday. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelhains Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) I haven't started in making cranks (yet) I stick to wirebaits and soft plastics. Not sure how soft or squishy your bait turned out but my first thought while reading this was "maybe a fish would hold on longer". I would think I soft hardbait could be a very effective weapon in one's tackle box? Edited February 16, 2016 by joelhains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
