Basseducer Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I recently purchased a pair of 6 in. Craftsman narrow jaw locking pliers. I use them almost daily to bend wire. I noticed that they were loosing their setting and slowly opening as I used them. As I was taking a closer look at them I noticed that they had "CRAFTSMAN" stamped on one side and "CHINA" stamped on the other side. You can't imagine my disappointment as I was under the impression that Craftsman tools were made in the USA. I guess you learn something every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) That is the gift of the globalization of trade, or, more accurately, the outsourcing of industry and jobs. I used to live half a mile from a Sears branch, and one day, as I was walking in there to shop, I realized that everything I was wearing, from my boots on up, was from Sears. That was in the early 70's, when most if not all of the stuff they sold was still made here in the U.S.. No more, obviously. It's kind of a vicious cycle. We want cheaper stuff because we no longer have jobs that pay well enough to afford better stuff. And industry provides cheaper stuff by manufacturing in countries with cheap labor and no pollution controls. Fortunately, as workers all over the world are paid more, they want a better standard of living, so, either their wages will go up, or industry will flee to another country with cheap labor. Just because workers in other countries don't have our education or standard of living doesn't mean they don't love their families and want a better life for them, just like us. Eventually they'll run out of poor countries to exploit. And the pollution from unregulated manufacturing will cause a backlash in those countries (think China and their filthy air) and force the governments to do something, or have their populations die. Funny how lots of other developed countries (Europe) seem to have avoided the worst of this, and protected domestic manufacturing. So, short story long, that's why your Craftsman pliers say China on them. Edited February 21, 2016 by mark poulson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpNoodle Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Craftsman tools have been made in China for quite some time now. It's why the price hasn't really gone up in 30 years. 30 Years ago I purchased a pair of Craftsman bull nosed nippers. Cost back then was a staggering $17. Cost today is about $20 for Craftsman. I can get Kobalt for $10. Both made in China, both with a lifetime warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Mark, you're right but it isn't that we want cheap stuff, it is just the opposite. What happened is manufacturing paid good wages and those people that worked those jobs could afford better things and workers were a commodity. Then it shifted, a few people bought politicians because they wanted higher profit margins so trade was opened up and American manufacturing had access to slave labor and now people can't afford good made things so now it has to be made by slave labor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Mark, you're right but it isn't that we want cheap stuff, it is just the opposite. What happened is manufacturing paid good wages and those people that worked those jobs could afford better things and workers were a commodity. Then it shifted, a few people bought politicians because they wanted higher profit margins so trade was opened up and American manufacturing had access to slave labor and now people can't afford good made things so now it has to be made by slave labor. I agree. You hit the nail on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 ........... The truth is that capitalism cannot exist unless there is something to exploit at the cost of many for the profit of a few ........... America became the world power it is after WW2 simple because we were the only country left with raw resources and manufacturing capabilities........... We became rich by exploiting the rebuilding others at great profit. Now we have exploited about everything we have including the American Worker. In many cases, a 2 income family cannot begin to buy what a 1 income family could when I grew up. The mark of a healthy economy is when the worker can afford to buy the item he makes. I'm definitely not a Socialist but history has shown that a good mix of capitalism and socialism builds the strongest economy. You can't have 1% of the population control over 90% of the money .......... Just look at the French Revolution. I'll get off my soapbox now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 US comanies would have heart failure if NAFTA got overturned, as they would have to pay big bucks to keep those factories overseas!! But I hear ya I bought a pair of Texas Tackle split ring pliers a few years ago and when I opened them!!! "Made in Pakistan"!!! and the really scary thought is that 80% of all surgical instruments are made in Pakistan!!! Thanks NAFTA!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 NAFTA is only a small potion but it needs to go too. It was China, and this was my biggest problem with free markets. How can you have free trade with a communist country?? There is no competition as the state owns everything there fore wages are set by the government. So if your economy needs a boost, you lower wages to attract manufacturing and the low labor cost more than make up for the added cost of transporting product to market. An American worker has to pay the first $6.50 of his or her hourly wage to pay for health insurance, then the next $8.50 goes toward rent and utilities, right there is $15.00 per hour before we even hit groceries and after those then you have disposable income. This will be the last I say about it, but I can tell you this, the stuff coming out of China that is good, comes from those companies that ship in their own material and use their own facilities as it gives them better control over the quality. It only took me 1 box of Mustad hooks made in China for me to start switching up hooks, the points were folding over just from hitting stumps. Things will get better shortly, Walmart had to close stores and even with dropping gas prices the markets are struggling, I think there are some who figured out that you can make stuff to the point it is almost free but if the segment of the population that your business relies on has no money to spend, it will fail despire the super low prices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 You're right, Smalljaw, there is no free market. China and other countries in the East, and Russia, control their economies and dictate what will happen. And the Western Powers meet at the G8 Summit to establish the growth rates they want for their members in order to control their economy. That doesn't sound like a free market to me. If our economy is going to be controlled, I want it controlled by us, the American People, and by our own democratically elected government, not by a few rich people who have no loyalty to anyone except themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Yes, China is a communist country and the government keeps a firm grip on the major industries, but not ALL industry. The feeling that I got when I was living there for 6 months, was that this is not what I expected a communist country to be like. It was pretty much like any other western city, with all the BIG name shopping/fashion brands that none of us can afford or would consider wasting money on. Of course, I only saw the city, not the villages. The scenario that Mark talks about, were standard of living in the low paid country, rises, and we have to look for another country to exploit, is coming. The standard of living and wages are rising in China. The day when cheap products are no more is coming. Perhaps not in our lifetime, but it IS coming. China is only just getting started. Every industry that we send over there for manufacture, teaches the Chinese the technology and manufacturing know-how. China now has a MASSIVE car industry. I would say half the worlds car design engineers are currently working in China for BIG money. I went to a bar in Shanghai on a Friday night, and bumped in to a dozen guys who I had worked with in the past. The day is coming when what is left of the USA car industry is going to get blown out of the water, and you won't be able to tell the difference, because the Chinese cars will be no different to the American cars, designed by the same teams. You are probably thinking, 'Damned greedy contractors sold us out'. That would be funny, because the contractors are thinking the western governments and their consumers sold US out. The situation as far as the west is going to deteriorate until all countries have the same standard of living, which is the point were all trade will be equal and no advantage gained by manufacturing overseas. This means that our cost of living must drop. The day might even come were China exports production to USA because of cheaper labor costs! Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Dave ............ There will always be a people to be exploited somewhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfart9999 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Think high taxes and regulations might have something to do with our not being competitive? We have the ability in this country to compete with anybody until government starts over regulating, over taxing and the lawyers get involved.Rodney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Dave, you may be right about our standard of living and the rest of the world's standard of living becoming equal, at some point. That won't be a bad thing. If you look at how much profit is skimmed off of the top, and all along the way, there is plenty of money for everyone to have a decent standard of living. Most of the blame lies with our Govt., which is the best government big money can buy. They required strict pollution controls to clean up industry, to appease the environmentalists and to look responsible to the voters, and then they allowed the dirty industries to go overseas instead of helping them clean up and modernize here at home. And they gave them tax breaks for doing it, because big industry gives big campaign contributions. So we, the taxpayers, paid for them to leave! The same thing happened to Great Britain. We can thank Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher for our transition to a "service economy", which, in reality, has meant rich people and servants. Our standard of living began it's rapid decline in 1980, the same year Reagan took office and began to dismantle our domestic economy by exporting it, piece by piece, and cutting taxes on the wealthy people who owned those industries. But much of Europe didn't go that way. They found a way to clean up their industries and keep them at home, because they knew the only way they could keep their standard of living was to keep good paying jobs at home. In Great Britain there is a large movement to leave the EU, which is their form of globalization, and return to home rule, and, with it, home control of their economy. So it can be done, and needs to be done here in the U.S., too. Edited February 22, 2016 by mark poulson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 But I hear ya I bought a pair of Texas Tackle split ring pliers a few years ago and when I opened them!!! "Made in Pakistan"!!! and the really scary thought is that 80% of all surgical instruments are made in Pakistan!!! Thanks NAFTA!!! Fatman, I had the same experience with Texas Tackle split ring pliers. Before I bought them at Cabela's I looked all over the package to see where they were made and it was nowhere on the OUTSIDE of the package. You only see the "Made in Pakistan" mark when you open the package. I was pissed!! To be frank, I felt that I was taken because I wanted to buy American made pliers. I can't say I am a big fan of those pliers anyway! I much prefer my Xuron (Made in USA) split ring pliers. Just my $0.02 Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I have two pair of Leadmaster split ring pliers. They are 10+ years old, and came with an 800 number engraved on the hinge face for service. If they're still in business, they are worth checking out: 800 533-9966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I have two pair of Leadmaster split ring pliers. They are 10+ years old, and came with an 800 number engraved on the hinge face for service. If they're still in business, they are worth checking out: 800 533-9966 Is this the ones your talking about Mark? Ben http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Leadmaster-Pro-Guide-Magnum/productDetail/-Pliers-and-Multi-Tools/prod72619/cat124507 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I have two pair of Leadmaster split ring pliers. They are 10+ years old, and came with an 800 number engraved on the hinge face for service. If they're still in business, they are worth checking out: 800 533-9966 Thanks! I was looking for the Leadmaster pliers. I have the larger size and I had the smaller pliers but I broke the end. They are good pliers! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archery1 Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Some items say Made in America .. But i think maybe just that sticker was made in America??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Is this the ones your talking about Mark? Ben http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Leadmaster-Pro-Guide-Magnum/productDetail/-Pliers-and-Multi-Tools/prod72619/cat124507 Yeah, those are the pliers. I have the 5" version, with no aligning pin, and they are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
