How Hard To Do?

[Les Young]

How hard would it be to make a 4 or 6 cavity pop mold of the zoom superhog to either inject or top pour ? Has anyone made anything like this?  Thanks

[Travis]

Hard?    All dependent on ones skill set.  I don't see it as being an issue.  I would likely stick to a 4 cavity however.    I think you do it either way but venting on the side appendage would definitely be needed for pouring and likely injection.  The appendage is thick enough cooling shouldn't be a big issue in my opinion.  If injection have the bait bottom fill with head down so plastic injects up the bait and out the tail.

[MonteSS]

It would never hand pour and fill out the appendages.

 

I also think even for an expert POP mold maker would be very difficult to get it to shoot right.

[Les Young]

Thanks guys.So much for the top pour thoughts. lol What if it was made for injection instead & does anyone think they could make this & get it to  shoot right ? Also could something like this be made to open pour & get good detailed baits as far as the appendages go ? if it had full flappers & tails a little flat side wouldn't matter & would make it easier to rig straight every time. Thanks

Edited March 27, 2016 by Les Young

[JRammit]

The main problem youll run into is the mad rush to get all your pieces in place before the plaster begins to set

Ive tried a few things ive read to retard the hardening

Vinegar, didn't seem to do anything

Milk, turned my mold into a biology project

Ice cold water, got me a few extra minutes

Also using DWP (durhams water puddy) will give you more working time than pop

In the long run, after throwing away countless pounds of hardened plaster, i decided if i want 4 cavities, ill just make 4 molds

[Travis]

It would never hand pour and fill out the appendages.

 

I also think even for an expert POP mold maker would be very difficult to get it to shoot right.

 

 I am fairly certain I could do it without any issues.  Poured baits with much thinner appendages.... Grubs, beavers, etc...    The only real issue i see is the air bubble that will rise in the side arm.  Proper venting will take care of that.   I don't see any issues with shooting the bait.  

 

I don't see any issues with molding more than one either, unless you are really slow.

 

Open pour would be doable also but easy to find those for cheap anymore.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Travis

[mark poulson]

I've made multi-cavity POP molds, and, for me, there are several key steps.  Taking your time with each, and doing dry runs, will help you succeed on your first attempt.

I start by making matching wooden mold box halves, with 1X1 sides, and 1/4" plywood bottoms.  After I've made the box halves, I clamp them together evenly, drill a through hole at each end to use for alignment, and add a cutoff 16D nail as alignment pins.  They only need to project into the second mold half 3/8" to do their job.

Then I seal the insides of the mold boxes with clear spray acrylic (because that's what I have handy).

Once I am ready to do the actual POP work, onee key is to use clean, cold water, and to coat the masters with a separate batch of POP first (it will bond) so all I have to do is place them in the wet POP.  That way I'm not racing against setting POP as I position the masters.

I've found that, for me, trying to do a multi-cavity injection mold with a connected sprue from POP is a nightmare, doomed to fail.  I'm sure there are folks here who can and have done it, but they're better men than I, Charlie Brown.

Ahead of time, I mark where I want the individual sprue holes on both the inside and outside faces of the mold box edges, so I can place a master in front of each marked spot, smooth the POP as best I can around the masters, and then let it set.

Once it's set, but not cured, I further smooth the areas between the masters, so I have a more or less flat surface, and then put the mold half in my oven, set on 170 with the door open, and let it dry out for a hour in the heat.

Once the POP is dry, I check to make sure there is no POP on the exposed master half.  I clean any off carefully, so I don't disturb the masters in the now-dry POP.

I coat the POP faces with D2T epoxy, thoroughly mixed and then thinned with denatured alcohol and brushed on.  Once it's soaked into the POP, I brush on a second coat, and then let it set completely, usually overnight.

The next day, I spray the POP mold half with spray PAM as a release agent, and coat the faces of the exposed masters with fresh POP, to get it into all the details and to prevent air bubbles from being trapped by the masters.

Then I fill my second mold half with fresh, runny POP.

I try and leave the level of the POP just below the frame level, to allow for the masters to take up some space.

I lay the already completed first mold half face down onto the second half with the wet POP, using the cut off nails already in place for alignment.

I push down on the top of the sandwich to force out any excess POP, clamp the two halves together, and then flip them over, so the wet half is on top.

I tap the mold sandwich with the rubber handle of a screw driver for thirty seconds+-, to help any air bubble that are trapped to move up and away from the masters.

Then I let the POP set.  I use the left over POP from the mold fill as a guide so I can tell when it's set.  Waiting too long is much better than not waiting long enough.

Once I'm sure the second half's POP is set, I carefully pry the two mold halves apart, so they separate cleanly.

If all goes well, all I have left to do is to clean any excess POP off of the mold frame, and then remove the masters, and dry the second mold half like I did the first in the oven.  I put the first half back in, too, since the masters may not have let the POP under them dry completely the first time.

Once both halves have been dried, I coat the second mold half, and the master cavities in the first half, with epoxy like I did with the first half.

I now have two matching mold halves.

Using the location marks on my mold box frames, I take the closed mold boxes to the drill press and drill individual sprue holes.  I start with a 3/4" brad point bit, to make the main sprue hole, 1/2" deep into the 3/4" thick mold frame.

Then I use a 1/4" brad point bit to finish the sprue hole, drilling down through the wood frame and into each cavity a little.

Don't worry if you're not exact at this point.  You can finish the holes into the cavities with an exacto knife.

Once I've gotten my sprue holes done to my likeing, I seal the exposed wood and POP with epoxy, the same way as before.

This may seem overly complicated, but once you've had a mold attempt fail at some point and have to start all over, you'll see why I do it this way.

One last thing.  POP sets hard initially, but it isn't dry, and that's why I put it in the oven.  If you seal POP with moisture still in it, you'll get mold.  Been there, done that.

Good luck.

[JRammit]

Once I am ready to do the actual POP work, onee key is to use clean, cold water, and to coat the masters with a separate batch of POP first (it will bond) so all I have to do is place them in the wet POP. That way I'm not racing against setting POP as I position the masters.

Thats different... Do you coat the whole master before making the first mold half??... If so, how does the parting line come out??

[MonteSS]

I prefer bondo resin. Cost a lil more but results are much better. More detail, harder, more durable than that chalky crap.

[Les Young]

Does anyone want to make up 4 to 6 individuals for me ? I'd gladly pay you for the trouble & time as i only know of one superhog mold on the market & it's $90.00 for a 2 cavity injection mold. Thanks

[JRammit]

I used Bondo when i first started, i learned quick there is little margin for error on the hardener ratio.... Actually had some set up on me mid pour, leaving a big spike coming off my mold.... Kinda looked cool, just wasnt what i was going for

Monte is right though, makes a nearly indestructible mold and glossy finish with no sealing required..... If you can handle that smell?.. Bondo smells worse and stronger than anything in my shop!

Although, ive read somewhere on here that resin (Bondo) can warp from excessive heat

Edited March 28, 2016 by JRammit

[mark poulson]

Thats different... Do you coat the whole master before making the first mold half??... If so, how does the parting line come out??

I only coat the first half, the one I'm putting down into the first mold half.  If some gets on the other face, once the first half is oven dried, I clean off the excess POP from the exposed faces of the masters, brush away the crumbs, and then do my epoxy sealing.

Once the first half is completely done, and I'm ready to do the second half, I spray my release on the first half, and then try and coat the exposed faces of the masters with POP before I fill the second mold half, and make my sandwich.

[JRammit]

I only coat the first half, the one I'm putting down into the first mold half. If some gets on the other face, once the first half is oven dried, I clean off the excess POP from the exposed faces of the masters, brush away the crumbs, and then do my epoxy sealing.

Once the first half is completely done, and I'm ready to do the second half, I spray my release on the first half, and then try and coat the exposed faces of the masters with POP before I fill the second mold half, and make my sandwich.

Thats a good idea!... Nothing more frustrating than trying to lay a floppy soft master strait in a mold while the appendages flail around everywhere..... I guess the plaster coat would stiffen them up

[JRammit]

Does anyone want to make up 4 to 6 individuals for me ? I'd gladly pay you for the trouble & time as i only know of one superhog mold on the market & it's $90.00 for a 2 cavity injection mold. Thanks

I would like the challenge, but just don't have the time

If you've never made a plaster mold, i highly recommend it!... Results are quite satisfying

Id start with a single cavity, if you like it, make a couple more.... Multi cavities can be done, just more to possibly go wrong

[Les Young]

Thankful guys, I appreciate the info

[Vodkaman]

I would just add, Don't skimp on the plaster, make your plaster molds deeper than you think necessary. Plaster, once dried, is very brittle and will easily fracture, especially if applying internal pressure. Just lightly clamping will fracture the mold if it is too thin.

 

I also recommend load spreader plates for the clamping, point loads cause problems.

 

Dave

[mark poulson]

I forgot to add that I put overlapping strips of drywall fiberglass mesh tape in the bottoms of my mold boxes, with small nails in the sides as keys, before I add my POP.

Truthfully, the nails aren't really necessary.  I tried do clean out a mold that went bad, to reuse the box, and it was hell to get the POP out of the mold box.

If you make your mold halves so they marry well, you shouldn't have to worry about cracking, because the two faces are exact matches for each other.  I have a ten cavity two part Ika POP mold that I've been using for years, and it's still fine.

I just clamp them with two adjustable bar clamps, or three, if the mold is long.

Edited March 28, 2016 by mark poulson

[JRammit]

Ive tried a few different methods, but returned to simplicity.... Float and cover

Just mix the plaster thick enough that your master dont sink... Pour 1st layer, scrape bubbles away, lay master in.... Keep water close by, if you mess up, rinse off the master and try try again

I use bendable drinking straws for my "plumbing" (sprues/runners).. They shoot fine, take up less mold space and waste less plastic.. Lay them in after the master.. Plug the ends with clay, or youll get mean bubbles

Let dry over night on a work day, or all afternoon if its the weekend

Locators... Beads in wet plaster, or drill dry plaster w a ball file

Spray with Pam... Pour second half slowly with one hand, brush around the master vigorously with the other to get rid of bubbles... Beat underside of table with hammer for a while

Let dry same as first half... Tap open w hammer and screw driver, carefully remove pieces

To bake or not to bake?... I bake, oven door cracked open, 200, 30-45 min... This will not dry the inside, but it will dry the surface so you can apply sealer....

The mold will take several days to dry completely through, but you can still use it in the mean time, just DONT store it closed up or it will mold (the green kind)

Sealer?... Thinned epoxy or wood glue/ water?.... I use both... Dry plaster will soak up alot of epoxy, wood glue is cheaper..... Pour glue mixture in the cavities, wait 15 seconds, pour it out... Brush the glue all over the mold face but NOT in the cavity, or youll see the brush strokes in the finished bait (doesnt level out like epoxy).. Let dry a few hours, then brush epoxy over that...... Shiny!

I have done a handful of multi cavities this way, but sucess rate wasn't 100%.... For a single cavity, this is the easiest method for me

[ipt]

making molds certainly takes a lot of trial and error and practice to get it right. ive been doing it for a few years now and can pretty much copy any lure pretty exactly.

 

a lot of baits with thin tails or arms will need to be injected, the easiest POP molds will be ones that can be gravity pours. I could make you the zoom super hog easily but I dont think the side arms would quite get filled properly.

 

my advice would be to take that bait as a starting place, keep the key features that you like but make some modifications to not only give it your own style but also make it easier to pour.

 

ive been working on my own molds doing similar things for a while now and have probably gone thru 100lbs of the stuff like it was never there. i use a different method than what it seems like a lot of people in here are doing.

 

send me a message if you want to talk further