GroshekLures Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Hey guys, new here. I am having problems with my lures not swimming straight and not having a nice wiggle. I have been doing a lot of testing and can't figure out if it is the shape of the bills, angle of bills, position of line tie etc. the type of bills that I use are circuit board from Jann's netcraft, and my lures are carved from poplar and I do not weight them. I have been making lures for about 3 years now and I'm starting to get into it where I want all my lures to perform great and can make them all the same but can't find the right lip angle, line tie position, and ballast placement, I can send pictures of the lures if needed, please help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Pictures would definitely help.. Along with a more specific description of what is happening with the lure(s) This part is the most fun (imo) but also the most frustrating... Its a trial and error process, but you can save yourself some error by getting your angles and measurements from a store bought crankbait to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 I have had the same issues with a bait I'm making now. However I got mine corrected. It's one or more of what you have stated. Weight/ballast of some amount is a must most of the time. Hooks are part of the equation also. The ballast must keep the bait running true for most baits. There are other techniques to make baits do what you want them to do ("hunting"). Shape of the bait, height and length ratios can or not give you fits with action. I just learnt about this. Mine is made from poplar, it is 8" long but took quite a bit of ballast, it surprised me. Mine has a 40° lip angle, with a "radar" shape and 1.25" from the body. The dive is at 8-9' with a nice calm waggle. I have another that has a wobble (shoulders has a left to right sway) and a slight waggle. The body's are different sizes. I'm telling you all of this to show how any of these characteristics are involved in designing a bait. Like JR it's fun sometimes...grrr. JR is right in this case pictures would help and size references. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroshekLures Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 The baits are 3 11/16" long and just under 1/2" wide, like I said no ballast and I use 3 different lips the top lures are 3/4" long with a slightly rounded end, those lips I put at a bout a 40 degree angle and the middle lures have a 1 1/16" lip that's rounded and I mount that at a 20 degree angle, the bottom lures have a 1 1/2" lip that is slightly rounded also at a 20 degree angle. The line tie is also close to the lips. The problem I'm having is as the lures swim the have very slight side to side action but they always vear to one side and don't retrieve straight to you, also as they go through the the water occasionally the lip just drags to one side and the lure has absolutely no action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroshekLures Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 The ones to the left have the 3/4" lip, the ones in the middle have the rounded 1 1/16" lip and the ones to the rightmost have the 1 1/2" lip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Have you tried using any ballast? Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 The bottom one ( red) my guess on that one is the bill is to long..The tie in needs to be on the bill.The other two..I'm with Ben,I'd try adding some ballast to them..Nathan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroshekLures Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Ya I actually just tested 2 lures that I drilled a hole in the bellys and put a split shot in and the action was phenomenal. I just can't seem to get the right placement or amount of ballast on the lures with the longer lips to get them to dive deep enough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 First of all, I like you paint work. I don't know the depth that you are looking for. I have a bait that dives to 25'+. The lip is at 5° down from the X Line. I had trouble with another prototype that the lip was to long, like Nathan stated. All my ballast is forward. The tail actually sets out the water. Great action, very quick and down to depth. Runs tail up to. Where to place the ballast? My best answer is to get a aquarium and place lead in different locations. See what you like. I have a pool to test shallower running baits and I can watch everything action they do. FYI, chemicals don't seem to hurt the clear coat. A bath tub can show some action, but it's limited. I guess like us all you will need to experiment. BUT keep the info about the bait for future baits. Hope this helps, Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I went back and looked at the baits again. Very nice design also. You also can buy lead dots or make them yourself. You can stick them to the bait and then just pull them off. Remember tho, ballast inside the bait is different then one stuck to the belly. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 You got a lot going on here... 3 different lips at 2 different angles..... Someone really smart once told me, only change one variable at a time... Other wise youll never know which change made it better or worse If you're buying your lips pre-made, id suggest making your own.. Gives you more flexibility with your designs Line tie location and lip length go hand in hand.. If youre line tie is on the nose of the bait, the only adjustment you have is lip length...... What you would do is, start with a lip too long and trim it back in tiny incriments until you get what you want Ballast will help with stability, but if the tow point (line tie) and lip length dont get along, you and the lure wont either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroshekLures Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Well I tried all 3 lips at both angles and I came to the conclusion the longer ones are better at a shallower angle so that's why there at two different angles. How do you suggest starting out making my own lips? What material and how do I cut them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I use either G10 circuit board or polycarbonate (aka Lexan) for lips. They work equally well. Make a template of the lip you want to use, trace it on the sheet of lip matetial and cut it out with either a pair of metal snips or a band or scroll saw. Use A dremel with a sanding cylinder to take the shape down to the exact line of the lip after cutting it out. I like Wiss M3 straight cut compound snips, less than $15 at Home Depot but I only use 1/32" G10 or 1/16" Lexan, both of which are pretty thin but fone for bass baits. With a little practice, you can do a batch of 6-8 lips in less than half an hour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroshekLures Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Thank you very much I might try making some lips of my own it would save me some money in the long run if it ends up working out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroshekLures Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 May I ask where you order/buy the G10 and lexan from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The lips you have differ by 5/16"-7/16".. Thats like 5-7 miles in terms of crankbait tuning... Ive found sometimes shaving off the thickness of a fingernail to have a significant difference in performance I use lexan, looks "cleaner" than circuit board imo... Just Google "lexan sheet", several suppliers, think i pay $4-$6 for a 12"x12"x1/16" sheet For shaping, Bob P has it.... My templates are made from card stock, i trace onto blue painters tape (thanks Mark P), cut out and tape to the lexan (protective film removed).. Cut lexan w snips or band saw, then grind down to the tape edge w sanding drum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I get my circuit board material here: http://lurepartsonline.com/Online-Store/Lure-Lips-Bills-Bibs/12x12-Fiberboard-Sheets-1-sq-Foot.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 When I started I put lips on some baits that was way to long and wide. You can use saws to do heavy cutting, I use a belt sander to do moderate work, then a file to touch up. The sander I use lighter grit on thinner material and turn down the rpm. As far as buying the board I will guarantee that Mark's supplier is a pretty good place. Take care, Dale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
