Proper Ballasting

[aulrich]

So I Have been playing with a lipless bait shape upsizing and down sizing.

The middle is the original and there is + 50% and -25% this bait is a laminated build, the original was made using 1/4" balsa 3.75" long. So yes up scale is 3/8 and down is 3/16.

the original was weighted with 3 large split shot. when I up sized it, the closest equivalent to the splitshot was a .495 muzzleloader ball.

Ass it turns out the body with just one coat of epoxy but no hooks and split rings floats.

I did measure the displacement of the body is about 60ish grams of water, the lure is about 54g. Now just for the fun of it I made two other versions one each in basswood and poplar. and they weigh in at 65g and 74g respectively they pretty much sink like stones.

So do I just use the basswood version or do I find a way to sneak in a few more grams of lead. Both could be an option as well since the heavier one would work in deep water better.

But if I sneak in some more lead how close should I be to that 60g should I be

[AceArcher]

Cant help much in regards to how much ballast as the baits of this type i make are made from 2 part resins.  But with those i have ended up going with ballast at approx 30% of total weight with it being a low and as forward as possible. 

With that said those baits are designed to be very fast sinking and want to stay down as i use them on the open ocean for tuna & other pelagics. 

I think you need to decide what and how you plan for the bait to be used and weight it accordingly.  In any case I'm sure they will look great when finished!

[SW Lures]

X2 Ace, it's all in what you want. I have most of mine slowly rising with no pull. These are just slightly head down. Then I have a few deep runners that sets head down at about 45°, but one barely floats the other slowly sinks. These are to draw Rock Fish out of a rock bottom (boulders).

For me it is what species I'm after and what depth I need to get the bait to. It's a trial and error when I'm designing. Reverse engineering is easier, but I like trying different designs. So I throw some away tho. Still I enjoy working on them.

Take care,

Dale

[aulrich]

Usage would be pike through the season. So 4'-20'+ and through the ice.

Likely I will be making floater/diver, slow and fast sink so I guess if I am going for a slow sink and the displaced weight is 60g do I build it to 58g letting hardware and epoxy tip it over to 61g-62g.

The reason we are upsizing is that there are few if any lipless with any size even at 3.75" its on the big side. I have not started on the 200% version yet

Is that a standard hard resin or lightened somehow, micro balloon etc.

Edited June 23, 2016 by aulrich

[AceArcher]

I use just a standard hard resin (sinks all by itself) with no micro balloons (again keep in mind that i want a really fast sink so that even when trolling i will get somewhere near 20 feet deep.)

As an example in this bait, total weight is approximately 80g with 25g of that being lead running along the edge of the "axe" so to speak, this provides a very fast sinking bait that will still run true up to a quite fast retrieve.

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by AceArcher

[SW Lures]

WOW, I have a 8" Musky bait that I'm working on that tips over 80 grs of poplar, ss hangers and lead. Thats about 2.95-3oz, that is a heavy one for the size. Although I am using 1/0 triple strong hooks and rings.

Dale

[Chuck Young]

There is room in this world for floating lip-less lures. One of my faves to use around weed mats and lily pads is a floating lip-less that dives 3 ft. I think the trick on a floater diver is a broader, flatter head. Weight forward doesn't hurt either. It has to get down somehow.

[aulrich]

Yes , I blundered into that fact, the first batch of this shape I had found the biggest splitshot I could find, made them up, then tested if they would sink. I was a bit disheartened when they didn't, that was until I used them in a shallow spring pike bay. The only issue is repeating the error.

Edited June 24, 2016 by aulrich

[Chuck Young]

To repeat that result try putting all the hardware on and cutting a length of solder. Hang it on a hook and trim until you get the right buoyancy (allow a little extra buoyancy for epoxy). Weigh the solder. Use the link to determine the diameter and depth of hole (allow a little extra depth for epoxy). Fill it with lead.

http://www.bostoncenterless.com/resources-metal-weight-calculator.htm

[SW Lures]

Once you know the ballast and location, game is on. You can now tweak the ballast to what you want, sink, float, suspending in my opinion is smoke it's there then not. I just get the bait to float or sink slowly. Like what has been proven to me, water temperatures can change this also.

If you have it where you want the bait. You will start understanding what can be done. The more you do this the more you will understand about what you can do and ballast needed. Unlike some of these folks here on TU, I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there fast.

Your getting there, people are giving you some very good ideas.

Dale

[RayburnGuy]

I would suggest getting a scale that measures in both grams and ounces and then reading up on Archimedes theory of water displacement. Also called the dunk test here at TU.

 

You need a scale that measures in grams because Archimedes theory doesn't work with ounces. Only in grams.

 

Once you have a grasp on water displacement it will make weighting a lure much easier.

 

Ben

Edited June 24, 2016 by RayburnGuy

[SW Lures]

I liked Ben's post because I use this to find my ballast weight. Then I determine the location and the amount at each location.

It's no more then a bucket (small one) with a downward spout and a cup. I use a quality digital scale. I wish I had a beam in metric increments, but I haven't found a deal yet. The quality beams are pretty pricey.

I had to edit this because I do this ballast test on the prototype only. The rest of the baits of a certain design has been the same every time to this point. There are calculator spreadsheets out there to find this answer but I have found the Archimedes Buoyancy and Density Test to be the best for me. Funny that a idea of a person thousands of years ago is still worthwhile today.

Dale

Edited June 25, 2016 by DaleSW

[mark poulson]

When I am figuring out how much ballast a bait needs, I always think of Vodkaman Dave, and make a silent apology.

I am no engineer, so, when I am making a new bait, I use a similar successful commercial bait to get a good idea of how my bait should hang in the water to achieve a similar ballast and action.  Even if the baits are built with different materials, if they are similar in shape and lip, and they hang in the water the same at rest, they will have similar action when they're fished, all other things being equal.

Since I use PVC trimboard, I can shape my bait, add the lip and hardware, and test float it without any sealing.

I have a 5 gallon bucket of water next to my work area.

I add the trebles and the line tie split ring, and then put both the commercial bait and my bait into the bucket.

I add egg sinkers and/or split shot to the front treble's hook tines until my bait hangs like the other bait.

I weigh the sinkers to determine how much 1/4" or 3/16" lead wire I need for ballast.

I usually have already used a weighted belly hanger, since I like to keep the ballast as close to the belly hanger as I can, to get maximum wiggle/X'ing.

It's not scientific, but it works for me.

One other thing I've learned is that, if I can extend some of my ballast up above a center line between the line tie and rear hook hanger, it makes the bait a little unstable, so it hunts.

Now that I've discovered using circuit board caps for my rattles, I deduct the weight of my rattles from my ballast weight, so I can add them in a side to side rattle chamber just above the bait's center line.

I hope this makes sense.

[aulrich]

That does make sense , and thanks

I did do the dunk test, that is how I know the goal weight is 60 grams or so. The big issue with the laminated baits is you need to commit to the ballasting as you are gluing up. I was trying to reduce the trial and error nature of this.

The current version I came in at 56g raw so hardware paint and 4 coats of etex need to get me just over that 60g mark, it's on the drying rack now with the first coat of etex so I can get a ball park of the per coat weight.

[SW Lures]

If 56 gr is everything except for clear coat, hooks, rings and the lip. It depends on your hook size(s), to me you seem close. For me a set of #6 hooks, rings lip weighs about 2-3 gr.

I hope you got it. I hope your keeping notes to.

Dale