Mcu Vs Pud?

[Offshore G]

Hi guys,

 

So I have FINALLY found MCU in South Africa, you have no idea how long it has taken me, believe it or not. 90% of places I called didnt even know what I was talking about. Anyway, here is what the supplier has told me and I would like to ask you guys for input regarding this "PUD?"

 

Thank you for enquiring with us. We most definitely have and MCU to offer you as well as the PUD (water-based polyurethane) which in my opinion may be the better option of the 2.

 

PUD’s are easier to clean (just use water to clean tools and equipment), user friendly (no solvents, no violent odour), have a high gloss (extensively used in lamination to enhance gloss) and fast drying (touch dry in 10-15 minutes). Once more they are not moisture sensitive so wastage is minimal. They can be applied by brush, roller or spray applied however I don’t see any reason why you can’t dip it as per the video you link you sent me. For optimum performance we supply them with cross-linker to further enhance their chemical and abrasion resistance. I have a 50ml sample of AQUA-LAM with cross-linker (X-LINKER) available should you wish to test?

 

Does this sound like I'm onto the right stuff? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Also if anything is unclear I can try and answer you guys further............

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Garreth

 

[SW Lures]

Quite a few use MCU here and a certain brand. I use to use D2T then another product, this product does not leave a shiny coat. I then went to MCU to get the look people want (thanks Ben).

I not familiar about PUD but I will read up on it. I have never seen any thing that I can remember. MCU does need acetone for clean up. I am going to order a dedicated brush for the MCU, I'm not sure what size I should get or quality. I don't know if .05 is to much.

I have not work with MCU enough to really give a opinion but this could be a very interesting thread.

Reading and watching,

Dale

ps, LOL.... I knew what it is, just by another name. Will give opinion later. Got to go.

Edited June 30, 2016 by DaleSW

[Offshore G]

Thanks Dale,

 

Here are 2 links I just found. One is a data sheet for this aqua-lam and the other link is an explanation on what it is. Its all Greek to me so maybe someone on here can explain it all and tell us if it can be used the same as we would use MCU?

 

http://www.dow.com/en-us/packaging/products/aqualam

 

http://www.dow.com/assets/attachments/business/pbm/aqua_lam/aqua-lam_444a/tds/aqua-lam_444a.pdf

 

looking forward to hearing more from you guys......

 

Garreth

[Nathan]

Reading in the first link it sounds like you mix two products together..The MCU's we use are a one part products.It doesn't mean this won't work..It's just different from what we use.

https://www.kbs-coatings.com/DiamondFinish-Clear.html

This is the product I've been using..Several guys from here told me about it.

No problem with dipping..(I've probably dipped well over 100 baits in the same quart I have) If it starts getting a little thick you can thin it with a shot of xylene...Two dips is like one coat of epoxy..Nathan

[BobP]

The thing that makes me suspicious of "PUD" is that it's water based. Members have tried water based urethanes (me included) and found they turn milky, soften, and delaminate when immersed in water for long periods. Water based finishes generally do that. If "PUD" has an additive that prevents re-absorption of water after drying, maybe that isn't a problem. But i'd want to see actual testing before I'd believe it, and I didn't see any info indicating it being waterproof in the description cited. If the company offers a test amount, I recommend you try it over paint before you use it on lures. Just say'in.

[RayburnGuy]

What Bob said X 2.

 

O also tried some water based MCU and the baits that were coated with it were MUCH more susceptible to hook rash. I'm not 100% sure if this was because this top coat didn't cure to as hard a finish as the solvent based MCU or if it was because the water based softened after being submerged in water for a period of time. Or a combination of the two. For whatever reason I quickly deep sixed the water based version.

 

Ben

Edited June 30, 2016 by RayburnGuy

[SW Lures]

My reply is the same as Nathan, BobP and Ben. I used water base when I first started painting. That won't it for me, I felt like the coating was breaking down. I started using D2T.

I haven't used that product and it is unfair to say not to. That is because I used a one part, you are suggesting a two part. It could be the best thing going. You could get a small amount and find out. Knowing that it may not be the right product. If you do use it let us know the final outcome.

Never know? Good luck,

Dale

[Offshore G]

Hi guys,

 

So I got a free sample of this water based product. I have still not been able to get the MCU as the supplier is still waiting for stock.

 

Anyway, I dipped one of my little johns and hung it to dry.

 

What I have found so far is that it leaves a very thin almost "rubbery" coating. I did as a test try and peel some off the bill and it came off quite easily. Although the more days I left it on the harder it was to peel off.

 

I tried brushing it onto another bait and it smudged the paint and made a total mess of the paint job. Dipping didn't seem to mess with the paint BUT it did leave a few drops of the paint in the coating. 

 

I obviously cannot compare it to MCU so does this sound right to you guys?  I will keep testing it out and let you know the results.....

[mark poulson]

I think only you can be the final judge of whether it works for you.

To me, the real test is of a clear coat is four things

First, is it compatible with your paint?  Your stuff seems to be if you dip it, but it must have some solvent in it, because you said it dripped a little paint back into your dipping jar.  If it does work out after curing, I might think about dripping over something else, although a drop of paint in a quart of finish is unlikely to even matter.

Second, is it water resistant enough to stand up to being fished?  Only fishing it will determine that.  I have used AC1315 successfully on lure, but it will soften if left in water overnight, or on a wet boat carpet overnight.  It holds up just fine to actual fishing.

Third, is it tough enough to protect your paint when the lure is fished?  Again, only fishing the lure will tell you that.

Last, will it diminish or enhance your paint job?  Some "clear" coats will dull metalics and pearls, some will really make them shine.  Only letting your finish cure out will give you this answer.

Every clear coat has it's pluses and minuses.

I am impatient, so I use Solarez UV resin for my clear coat.  I like that I can cure it in a light box in three minutes, and be hard and ready to fish.  But it has some kind of wax in it that shows as a fog on dark colored baits.  Heating the resin in a double boiler with hot water (thank you whichever TU member gave me that tip) so it goes on thinner when dipped eliminates the fogging, but it does allow the needle sharp hook points to penetrate sometimes, because it is so thin.  It's not a problem for me, because I build with PVC, but I would leave it thicker on wooden baits.

[SW Lures]

The rubber feel you described is what I had but after fishing with it like Mark has stated.

Some clear coates takes quite some time to cure. There has been some lengthy discussions about clear Coates taking weeks to cure. Another thing that I just thought of, you fish saltwater. I will assume by some post you have done. I'm sure that saltwater will put some pressure on your clear coat. The tuffest coat is Devon 2 Ton. It's also the heaviest.

My opinion, take your best shot at what you can get. If it doesn't work then you will try another. Keep the amount to a minimum.

Good luck,

Dale

[Offshore G]

Thanks for the great feedback......,

 

Mark, from what the supplier has told me, they use this same product on cars for vinyl graphics so it is supposed to be waterproof and meant to take a bit of wear and tear. It is a 2 part so the 2nd part is the inhibitor that bonds the molecules. Hopefully this is the difference between a 1 part PUD that makes it work ....

 

Thanks Dale, I'll keep posting test results. 

 

This 2 part PUD product takes 7 days to cure properly so I have a day to go then I'll throw it in the water and bash it around a bit.......

 

I do like my BSI 30min 2 part but now with the winter cold it is difficult to apply and the paint brushes we get here are rubbish, the epoxy pulls all the hairs out of the brush and you sit for 5 mins pulling hairs off your bait with a scalpel. I have actually just ordered kiddies brushes from the USA, hopefully they work better. We dont have central heating but do you think if I heat my painting room with a gas heater it will help with the epoxying? 

 

Chat soon,

 

Garreth

[SW Lures]

I don't have a traditional turner. I don't like dust getting to my baits, well the best I can. My turner is in a cabinet that is sealed. LOL I have a fan and filter made into it. I even have a light in it for heating and curing the paints and clear coatings. I really don't know if it will help or hurt. Some coatings are chemical reaction that hardens. Read about it first.

But if you do, watch out for combustion and fire. A light bulb does wonders in some conditions. Example, in colder weather as you are talking about. I let the coating level out then I turn on the light for about 30 mins. Take a peak just before I cut the light off. I built this out of things I had laying around. I built it when I first start painting, really I over did it. But it does well. I don't use the light much anymore now.

Be very careful with curing to fast.

Dale

[mark poulson]

Garreth,

Someone here on TU suggested putting my dipping jar of resin into a container of hot water, to help it go on thinner.

I do that in the winter.

I used to use a hair dryer to get my D2T bottles warm in the winter, so they would flow more quickly.

Now I'm just going to let the sit in hot water for a few minutes.

I don't top coat with epoxy anymore, but when I did in the past, I'd hit the mixed epoxy with a hair dryer to get it to flow out better when I brushed it on.

Because I was heating the epoxy after it was mixed, I shortened my working time.  Even though it was easier to brush on, it set faster, so I learned to mix less and do fewer baits.  Mixing another batch is way easier than trying to even out epoxy that has begun to set up.

Heating the individual components while they are unmixed doesn't seem to affect their shelf life, at least not for me.

[wchilton]

Heating will speed up the curing process.  It's like any other chemical reaction, higher temp results in faster reaction.  The rule of thumb is reaction rate doubles for every 10 deg C (18 deg F) increase in temperature.  That rule depends on other things besides temperature but is not a bad guideline.  A little heat to make the epoxy flow is fine.  As it's spread out over the bait it will cool back down and the cure speed will go back to normal.  If I want to speed up cure time I'll usually let the epoxy cure normally (without heat) until it's solid and then warm it up for the final cure.  I just hang baits in a cardboard box and put the whole thing in the oven with just the light on (no burner heat).  With a 60 watt bulb that gave me a 100 degF cure environment.  I used to use a cardboard box/lightbulb setup for curing tung oil on gunstocks.  Same principals apply.  With that setup I reduced cure time from 3 days to less than a day and I could apply the next coat each evening after work and get a stock finished in a few days or a week.

[Offshore G]

So Ive been testing the PUD water based urethane and Ive found for topwater baits it works just fine. With the topwater baits obviously not bashing against rocks etc all the time it seems to work quite well........

 

I have now just discovered spraying on 2K automotive clear coat and I am loving the results. Cleaning the airgun after is a bit of a mission but I am happy with the outcome.