Lip Length Vs Width

[SW Lures]

I'm getting ready to put lips in some baits. I was thinking about the lips (shape, length and width). I had some failures some time ago in deep divers. I found that the width of the lip was the culprit along with tow eye location. A few did real well tho, thinner lip, I experimented.

My baits that failed had two issues, one was the amount of distance from the nose of the bait to the tow eye. Dieter explain what I did wrong there. The next I ended up finding myself, the width of the lip to the length and angle just did not work. The original lip width was approximately 60% to its length. Now it's 35% to its length. These baits had lip thickness at just under 1/8". The baits was used in waters with rock everywhere. The lip had to hold up. Yeah I know I learnt from that width thing.

Now I'm getting ready to use circuit board lips for the first time. Is there any of those "you should know" things to keep in mind for this? I have searched some but never really found answers that I'm looking for nor could I ask a question.

Thanks,

Dale

Edited July 9, 2016 by DaleSW

[BobP]

Circuit board is especially good on cranks that will be fished through rock cover because it has a sharper action and sharp rebound considered to be more attractive to bass.  It is stiffer than the same thickness of polycarbonate and has a different weight.  On deep divers, the weight difference can be significant so requires re-ballasting and re-balancing the lure to get similar performance to a lure you've built using polycarbonate.  Never any Free Lunch, is there?    

[SW Lures]

Thank you Bob, I never would have thought that the CB (circuit board) would hold up under that condition. We troll the cranks 70% of the time during these trips. You can feel them bounce off of rocks and occasionally you will get wedge into one, normally releasing after allowing pressure off.

It seems to be logical that the thinner lip would cut the water better, which makes for a better performance. I guess I will be checking the weight difference out this winter. Yeah I'm leaving this area again for a trip for wading mountain rivers for Smallies in a few weeks.I wanted to go to a lighter lip to reflect the smaller baits.

I have another question Bop, knowing how CB bends. Have you ever put them in being convexed or concaved? If so have did you ever have any stress fractures in the board over time?

Thanks,

Dale

Edited July 10, 2016 by DaleSW

[BobP]

Circuit board will wear down when fished over rocks a little faster than polycarbonate (aka Lexan) but to me, that's just part of the fishing game. For a lure designed to troll over rocks, maybe that's an issue. Not to me, as I see lures as fishing tools that all eventually wear out. I've heated and bent Lexan but not CB. CB is much stiffer than Lexan for the same thickness and doesn't flex easily at room temps. I use 1/16" Lexan or 1/32" CB on bass cranks. I don't know what material is used when making CB, just that it's described as a "thermoset" material.

[mark poulson]

I have not been able to bend circut board.  I think it's because it seems to be a layer of mesh sandwiched between two layers of some kind of hard, rigid resin.

I do know it is hard to glue to itself.  I was hoping to add a different shaped lip to a crank I'd already made, but I couldn't get two test pieces to stick to each other with super glue.  Maybe epoxy will work, but I haven't tried that yet.

[BobP]

Dale, one thing to note about trolling lures: they undergo extreme wear, especially from hook rash, so a thick durable topcoat is important if your bait is built from wood. I troll striper crankbaits all day sometimes and have found that epoxy topcoat lasts longer than most other options. I love the hardness, slickness, and factory look of MCU but one coat of it will not last as long as a coat of D2T on a trolling lure. Important for wood crankbaits, not so much for plastic.

[SW Lures]

Noted Bob and Mark, I took a manufactures lip today made out of CB, and I had to cut it shorter. This stuff is a dream to work with. I scored it and it broke out clean enough to just touch it up with a file. Then I put two notches and two small holes in it to secure it when I'm finished painting.

I have some sheets of CB now. I just enjoyed working with it. The only thing I may have lost in CB, I put paper (patterns) with shapes that I want to cut out on the jig saw. On the patterns I have a witness mark for the center line. I have been using children's stick glue and stick the pattern to the cover film of the lexan. This still may can be used on CB. I'll find out, it's just a good way to keep the lip aligned with the center line (X Line) of the bait.

I'm almost out of lexan, so I need to find me some 1/16". I agree Bod, wear and tear is normal for anything we have, tools, nature, whatever. So now I'm getting schooled in detailing each design. Noted; MCU is good in normal (I just started using, Ben) casting baits. DT2 is better for trolling which I do the same Bob in the spring for stripers. Lips are the same, I believe that I have lexan that is to thick. I understand and will follow your advice. I might keep some 1/8" around for some projects.

By the way Mark the swimbait is turning out great (only two piece for now), this CB lip is just adding to the way it's turning out. Tested it in a pool. Cutting the slot is just simple to do with the blade thickness on the band saw.

Thank you,

Dale

[RayburnGuy]

Dale,

 

Try using some low-tac adhesive spray to affix your lip templates to the circuit board. I use Loctite 100 Lightweight Bonding that I get from Ebay, but there are other brands that serve the same purpose. Living in a small town it's cheaper for me to pay shipping charges than it is to drive 25 miles to buy it in a store.

 

You'll need to let it set up for a bit before cutting your lip. If you try to cut the lip immediately after applying the spray the template can slip. If the template is hard to remove after cutting the lip just wet the template with some DA and it will soften the adhesive so it just peels off. (that's another nice thing about circuit board...........DA and acetone have no effect on it)

 

Ben

[BobP]

Dale, I'm not saying 1/8" CB or any lip material is too thick for a crankbait. It all depends on how a guy wants the lip to perform and how well he integrates a particular lip shape, size, weight, and thickness to a particular crankbait. I opt for thin material because it's what I started with, because it's easier to hand cut and shape, and I like how it performs. Last but not least, it's what I buy "in bulk" so have become used to working with. For hobby builders like me, it's good practice to decide on an array of building materials and stick with it because it limits the ways you can screw up a crankbait design and makes for less uncertainty. It's easier to build good baits when you have learned the little ins and outs of working with a fixed set of materials. Tiny changes to a crankbait have outsized effects on its performance. Making really good crankbait is really hard to do. The more you work with a set array of materials, the less variability you have and the easier it is to get where you want to go, in my experience.

[SW Lures]

I understand what you are saying Bob. The 1/8" lips really took a beating in that condition and came out fine. I tapered the leading edge of the lip to give it a better ability to cut through the water and diving. However I now see that it's possible to thin them down and create a different action to a bait.

I have 18 patterns now, I think the thinner lip would add a different performance to the same pattern. I planned in the beginning to change them up in different ways. This will be one of those ways. I will have time to work on these in the winter.

@ Ben, I'll give it try.

This has been a great help in understanding another side of making wooden baits.

Thank you,

Dale

[wchilton]

Materials that are referred to as "thermoset" are those that harden due to a chemical reaction.  When a material is referred to as "thermoplastic", that means it becomes solid as it cools.  Thermoplastic materials can be softened, shaped, even melted by heating and then injection molded.  Thermosetting materials will not melt once they become solid.  They may soften a bit and become more flexible upon heating, but too much heat will cause them to degrade.  G-10 is in a category of materials commonly called "garolite" which use different combinations of resin and re-enforcing fiber.  G-10, specifically is an epoxy resin with fiberglass (e-glass) used as the re-enforcing fiber and that is, I think, what is being called CB material for lure lips.  Other types of "garolite" are made from paper, linen fiber, etc.  Knife makers use similar composites for knife scales, in which case they usually refer to the material as "micarta".  For knife scales, strength is usually not an issue so they'll use all kinds of different fibers to produce decorative patterns.