19D10 Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Ok..ive probably coated over 200 baits in devcon. Never had a issue til i opened a set of new bottles. I cut the ends off of medical syringes. Mark the handles blue or red. Squirt 1 cc of each bottle into each syringe. Then gently push each into a medicine cup. I slow stir them for about 1 min..use long even strokes.i check the bait under a bright light to make sure there are no bubbles or missed spots. Then i put them on rotisserie. all is good right? Well until i check them them a couple hours later..they look like the have hail damage! Pits in the epoxy! Some of them even have a light white haze in them! Can some one give me some input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) How did the paint look? If the paint looked good then it is in the D2T. If the paint has issues that does not seem related to the epoxy then it could be the paint or the sealer. You seem that you have been doing this for awhile so....I would say yes it's the 2T. In my experience anything can happen like a bad batch or frozen, etc. This is just a shame what this has done to you. If it is the 2T then that's just another reason why I moved away from it as a clear coating. I'm not going to push another product but if you find it is the 2T then concider a change. Just MO Good luck to ya, Dale Edited August 7, 2016 by DaleSW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 If fish eyes, contaminated surface ,uncured paint or not properly mixed , make sure epoxy room temp also.my guess contaminated surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 P.s it wasnt 5 minute d.c by accident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) I have found that not mixing enough is usually the culprit. In our desire to keep bubbles down, we are sometimes too gentle. Mix the crap out of it, and then use a hair dryer to heat it, and your breath to p.o.p. the bubbles before you coat your lure. Here's what I would do: Mix up a test batch of the epoxy to see if it sets right. Put some of that test batch over the same paint scheme to you will see if it was the paint. If it is the epoxy, get some more epoxy that is good, and just put another coat over the bad. It should make it right. Edited August 7, 2016 by mark poulson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 You mention "pits in the epoxy". Did it look as if those "pits" went all the way to the paint? If so then my guess would be contamination on the lures surface. Easiest way to test would be to coat something that you know isn't contaminated. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Usually, when it fish eyes, it still dries hard but in a textured finish. My money is on old product that may have been sitting on the shelf to long. With paint and finishes the first thing to go wrong when old is slow or no drying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19D10 Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 All the baits that this has happened to. Were usually painted within the last hour or so. I dont leave baits to sit out and clearcoat later. Even with them sitting for a hour or so i usually blow them off with a hair dryer just to make sure there is no dust or hair on them..anyway i have to order my devcon from amazon. No one around here carries it. So you never know how old it is! Been thinking about switching to envirotex. I hate not being able to clearcoat more than a couple baits in a batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Prager Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Maybe a little oil from your fingers or hands? That will cause the separation or pits.....also if the epoxy is starting to set this can happen as it is pulled by the brush. I know you're not new at this but thought I throw it out there. It really needs to flow. i use epoxy as well and the working time is 2 at a time but can't take the odor of e-tex. One thing I do after EVERY bait I paint is spray it with something...whether it a flip/flop paint...flair tint, Polytranspar shimmer.... this covers all and any contamination. Also keeps your signature from smearing if using a Micron pen. @Mark.....if you dip your brush in DA after mixing the the epoxy to a froth (I use BSI) it temporarily thins it and all the bubbles are gone instantly and the DA evaporates. I use to exhale on the bubbles to degass but was always afraid to end up with a mouth full! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19D10 Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Ok whats bs? Can anyone post a link. I was thinking about switching to etex. I did not know there was a fume issue?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 BS is Bob Smith epoxy. Etex (real name Envirotex Lite) is a decoupage or table top epoxy that comes pre-thinned with solvent so it can be poured after mixing. You'll find the brush time and cure time for Etex is much longer than for D2T and, because it comes pre-thinned, it makes a considerably thinner coating than glue epoxies like D2T. Many builders like its performance and clarity but they typically apply multiple coats of Etex to build up a thicker coating. Multiple coats + longer cure times = much longer to finish a lure, if that's an issue for you. Using D2T for 15 years, I've experienced just about every epoxy failure possible but I've never had a failure due to a "bad batch" or "old epoxy", and that includes D2T stored for multiple years in my garage. The worst that happened is the hardener began to darken, but the stuff still cured normally. So my gut feeling is that your problem is probably not the epoxy, per se, but something on the surface of the lures. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Using D2T for 15 years, I've experienced just about every epoxy failure possible but I've never had a failure due to a "bad batch" or "old epoxy", and that includes D2T stored for multiple years in my garage. The worst that happened is the hardener began to darken, but the stuff still cured normally. So my gut feeling is that your problem is probably not the epoxy, per se, but something on the surface of the lures. Around 12 years here and same experiences with its performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzfly Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 How I would approach this to find out what is going on: 1 - mix another batch as you would normally mix it. same amount and same tools. don't do anything different or change the mixing tool or the way you measure or what you mix it on. do it the same way. I find it better to mix by weight. 2 - let it sit and walk away. if it does not dry to touch in 3 or 4 hours you have a either a bad mix ratio, poorly mixed it or a bad batch. Bad batch is very unlikely. in 20 years and going through 8-10 sets of the big bottles I have never had a bad set. 3 - determine if the medical syringes had a silicon coating or release agent on them. this could be a big problem. Deacon 30 is very forgiving on mixing ration, but not on poor mixing. I mix mine for about a minute and do it on a post it note with a metal bodkin. Keep the post-it note and check that, not the lure, to see if it dries. It will also let you know if you have issues. 4 - i would extend the paint drying time of the lures before you paint them and make sure you are not just skim setting them with the hair dryer. if you trap moisture under the paint you will have problems. I assume that you have not changed your paints or and of the reducers or additives you have been using. 5 - check the side of the box it came in. it will have an exploration date on it usually stamped in blue ink. I have used it many times 1 to 1 1/2 years past the exploration date and had no problems. all depends on how you store it. cool and out of lite is the best. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Prager Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Ok whats bs? Can anyone post a link. I was thinking about switching to etex. I did not know there was a fume issue?? The odor issue is just for me. Emphysema...should have specified that. Even D2T bothers me. I don't have a problem with BSI (Bob Smith Industries) 30 minute slow cure epoxy odor wise.....very similar to D2T in usage...doesn't pull away from edges but still can only do 2 baits 3 if you rush it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 As mentioned above, I've also read not to use medical syringes to measure epoxy. Seems strange - after all, they're saying it's OK to shoot into your vein but not to measure epoxy!? Anyway, I got a pair of epoxy syringes from a rod building site and have been using them for several years without issues. And I also mix the crap out of my D2T before application. Hard enough that it looks like milk with all the air beat into it. But mixing a few drops of denatured alcohol in afterwards clarifies the mix and I also use an artist's brush to apply it, and the fine bristles tend to pop any bubbles still in the mix. There are probably as many ways to do epoxy as there are guys doing it. And as many ways to screw it up. Just keep refining the method until it becomes impossible to have a failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 only time i had a big problem with pits/fish eyes was in the winter.... we lived in a crappy rent house, heater didnt work... had space heaters in every room except my work bench area cold epoxy is worthless!... i learned real quick to not only warm the devcon tube, but also to warm the mixing tray im not sure where youre located, but if i remember geography and science correctly, south of the equator its winter now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 only time i had a big problem with pits/fish eyes was in the winter.... we lived in a crappy rent house, heater didnt work... had space heaters in every room except my work bench area cold epoxy is worthless!... i learned real quick to not only warm the devcon tube, but also to warm the mixing tray im not sure where youre located, but if i remember geography and science correctly, south of the equator its winter now And warm the bait. It helps keep the epoxy warm so you can brush it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) And warm the bait. It helps keep the epoxy warm so you can brush it out. i didnt even think of that... good call Edited August 9, 2016 by JRammit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 This happened to me, it isn't the Devcon, it is the medical syringes you used...medical syringes use a lightweight silicone based lubricant on the rubber plungers..silicone is what caused the dimples so find some syringes to use that are dry and you wont have this issue...good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Flexcoat syringes are made for two part epoxies. http://www.flexcoat.com/products/supplies-accessories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 medical syringes are your problem, get some syringes for rod building and problem solved 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Guess I got lucky. Been using the syringes that are used to refill ink canisters for years now and never had a problem. I also use a wee bit of airbrush lube on the rubber of the plunger to make it easier to inject and have never had a problem with that either. Now that I know about the problems other folks have been having I'll probably start having trouble as well. Sometimes it's better to be lucky and dumb than it is to be smart. Ben 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 It is the silicone that causes all the problems, the stuff you are using apparently isn't silicone based, I couldn't even clean the syringe well enough to not get the pitting and catastrophic result...I eliminated them and have never had an issue since...I was convinced that it was a clear issue and since I paid quite a bit for the product I went to the auto paint store and the guy showed me a panel in which they contaminated on purpose with a drop of silicone...spot on identical., my issue was so bad I used the devcon to try and finish the job for this guy and it did exactly the same thing just not as dramatic as the thinner urethane clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Good to know Sonoman. thanks, Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
