Screw Eyes Vs Wire-Through

[Jon P.]

What are your opinions on the difference between wire through construction and using screw in line ties? I'm making a glide bait and using wire through would be very tough (as far as time and mass production goes) and I would like to know if the benefits of wire through construction out-weigh my need for fast construction.

[RayburnGuy]

It depends mostly on the type of wood your using. The softer grades of balsa will usually need a wire through design. The species of fish your going after can also play a role in the choice. Toothy, more violent species, such as musky and pike, will put a lot more stress on a lure than bass or panfish so a wire through might be a better choice.

 

Ben

[Musky Glenn]

I have caught muskies on both type of lures and never had an eye give trouble. The only lure that ever pulled out was on two different weedless Jitterbugs on Stick Marsh in Fla. Bass jerked the tail hook out as they mount the hook in a plastic piece and press it in the end of the Jitterbug, great lure for over grass.  Musky Glenn

[BobP]

I don't have pike or musky where I fish. Even in balsa, I've stopped using thru-wire construction in favor of hand twisted stainless wire screw eyes. I make them longer in soft balsa and I always epoxy them into any bait I make, regardless of the kind of wood used. So far, none have ever pulled out in 15 years of use.

I think thru-wiring is beneficial in only one scenario. You build a bait in which the thru-wire is one continuous wire that includes the line tie and both hook hangers. You hook a fish that is violent enough to destroy the body of the bait. The thru-wire allows you to boat the fish regardless, after which you have to discard the bait anyway. Never had a bass that could do that to one of my baits, so I don't see the need of going to the trouble of thru-wiring any more. JMHO

Edited October 13, 2016 by BobP

[mark poulson]

I use runny super glue to reinforce the balsa at my hardware holes, and then screw in my sst screweyes.  I back them out again, coat the threads with super glue, and then run them back in.

I've only caught bass to 2lbs on them, so far, so I don't know if they will hold up to big fish.  But I fish them on 17lb mono or fluoro, not braid, so there is some give in my cranking setup.

Edited October 13, 2016 by mark poulson

[SW Lures]

Never used any screw eyes to this point. I've caught quiet a few really nice Smallies this summer and a few Bucketmouths of 4-7 lbs. No problems with twisted ss eyes w/super glue. But I don't use balsa much for my material either. I made a few for Musky (hard wood) but the guys didn't get any, however they did pick up some 30+" walleyes on the baits. No problems.

I want to catch a 20+ lb striper in fast water or one of the guys gets a Musky, then I'll truly know about freshwater fishing.

Point is glue/epoxy w/screw eyes or twisted wire would be fine in my opinion. I've tested wire eyes by having 55 lbs on the eye for days and a test up to 780 lb sudden impact, the pull was straight against the connection using super glue. No problems, other then the wire breaking and my bucket collapsing under the weight of the lead in it.

Have a great day,

Dale

[woodieb8]

screws are good, one issue on large predators is the net thrashing. torque can loosen screws over time. . we have built screw baits for years. . nowadays folks want wire thru musky/pike lures. . lures being trolled up to 5mph for miles take a reel beating.. ad screw lures that have caught 50 musky before retires. was not a screw issue.was general fatigue and missing wood lol.. just pilot drill your screw holes,and epoxy them in . just my thoughts guys.

[Jon P.]

It depends mostly on the type of wood your using. The softer grades of balsa will usually need a wire through design. The species of fish your going after can also play a role in the choice. Toothy, more violent species, such as musky and pike, will put a lot more stress on a lure than bass or panfish so a wire through might be a better choice.

 

Ben

I'm using resin

[RayburnGuy]

Can't help you with resin as I've never used it.

 

Ben

[gliders]

Always thought screw eye's should have flattened shank to resist torque.

[jigginpig]

Opinions are great, but testing your design is better. It is hard to deliberately destroy perfectly good blanks, but just go ahead and build batches with the intention to destroy them. 

When I was a kid, I started tearing up baits to see how they were put together. I noticed that baits similar to ones I was using to catch some decent fish had pretty weak looking construction methods, yet held up OK. If you think about it, over the years I am sure you have snagged a little twig or piece of cattail or tule or whatever, and busted off your bait. That little piece of wood was stronger than the line you were using. I doubt all the plugs you have used all your life are through-wired. 

I built batches of my first big baits with the objective to destroy them. I had PVC swimbaits I was fishing for bass with that would support my entire body weight off the ground and not pull out a screw eye. I was about 195 if I remember right. So that is good enough for most situations I would think. 

Bottom line, you just don't know how strong a combination of material/adhesive/hardware is until you break it. I through-wire balsa, basswood, and other light woods because I have busted a bunch of them and the thought of breaking off a good fish makes me do it, but even balsa is plenty strong if it is done right. 

Edited October 13, 2016 by jigginpig

[SW Lures]

I have to add a addendum to my above post. I'm making a swimbait that is similar to a Thunderstick by Storm. The tail of the bait is so thin and short that it's not practical to put in twisted eyes. I'm cutting it with a blade that's just smaller then a 1/32". I'm putting in a through wire hinge in it.

I would not use this normally. I have to use this technique or change the design. That I won't do. To me it's depends on the design of the bait.

Dale

Edited October 13, 2016 by DaleSW

[mark poulson]

Always thought screw eye's should have flattened shank to resist torque.

I never thought about that, but, with a larger screw eye, that would be a good idea.

I've used both .092 and .072 sst eyes.

I always let the super glue squeeze out that's left when the eye is run back in act as a kind of faring, to seat the eye and keep it from rotating.  It isn't bullet proof, I know, because I've removed glued in eyes before, but I needed some pliers and some force to get them to back out.

Edited October 14, 2016 by mark poulson

[Travis]

Some guys use procedures that really only are satisfying a whim.  It serves no practical application purpose as it doesn't really address a problem or issue in the first place.  There is absolute no real world fishing situation (they encounter) that could ever warrant some of the lengths guys go through.        

 

I have baits that are years old and have caught hundreds of fish.  The bait performs as intended.   I can take that bait today and stomp on it and destroy it.  I could hang weights onto  the rear hanger until it failed, etc... the issue is none of these test me hooking a fish and reeling it in so what are we really accomplishing by doing these sort of testing procedures?  Nothing but satisfying a false understanding of what is needed in a bait. 

[gliders]

Yip travis and mark,I use 40mm screw eyes, sometimes twisted wire, epoxied in,never pulling out. I've also seen screw eye's loosen slightly due to torque/fish twisting when unhooking at side of boat or in net, only a few times and not with my lures I might add.I have experimented with flattening or grinding flats on screw eyes, and it makes them very resistant to twisting, but a bit of a pain to do and integrity of metal shank a worry. If made that way it could be an improvement though.

[Jon P.]

Really the only reason I would use wire-through is if there was some stellar difference between screw eyes and wire-through. Wire-through costs much more (time wise) to install and I'm not going to bother if the different is just lemons and limes.

[SW Lures]

The reason I tested was because I was new at wooden baits number one. The second I was using super glue when everyone pounds the drums for epoxy, however super glue is a epoxy but not a two part. Third I was going after a species that in a certain environment is differently much stronger then any bass that I ever caught. Trust me I have caught some really nice bass. It's good to know that the eyes won't pull out, nor will they distort from a extreme strike. I have no fear anymore with what I make now.

I was going to write more but it is no use.

Take care,

Dale

Edited October 15, 2016 by DaleSW

[jigginpig]

 I could hang weights onto  the rear hanger until it failed, etc... the issue is none of these test me hooking a fish and reeling it in so what are we really accomplishing by doing these sort of testing procedures?  Nothing but satisfying a false understanding of what is needed in a bait. 

 

Not afraid to take a position, are you? 

Mate, hows about you wrap your brain around this... there is more than one way to skin a cat. You make your baits in whatever objective, subjective, interpretive, concrete, rational, irrational, mystical, philosophical, magical, skeptical, proletariat, bourgeoisie, or self-congratulatory way that works for you, and others will do the same. 

I like to know, for example, what the operating parameters I have to work with are. Failure modes help establish those parameters. Knowing eight out of ten .181 stainless screw eyes two and a half inches long installed with polyurethane adhesive into PVC foam will not fail when subjected to a static load exceeding 200 pounds gives me confidences in the validity of my construction method.

Sorry, bro. 

[gliders]

There you have it jon, both types of construction work well if done properly, it may come down to whatever building process and material you are using . Try using both to build a few lures to completion including painting and top coat. You'll get a better idea what to go with - I.e - time, effort, cost, pro's and cons for rest of build. Oh, and test for strength yourself for peace of mind! Regarding dales thunderstick, certain types of builds can obviously sometime dictate what you use, for example making the tail section of a thunderstick would pretty much demand through wire, would be silly to use anything else, however you asked are screw eyes strong enough- yes! Would through wire be better in resin? Build some and see.

[SW Lures]

Gliders you are dead on. Get a good idea of what you can do, BUT assume nothing. A lot of these people here can put you in the right direction, but may not put you in the right lane which works for you.

I trust what I see not what I'm told. Is this a bad thing for a personality? Can't say, but it works for me, has kept me safe. Gliders is right, find out what works for you. What you like!

Dale

[Travis]

Hey guys test and build baits however is needed.  I agree many ways to do it.  As long as you are enjoying building and fishing them great. 

 

I do not know if my baits can support even 100 lbs static let alone 200 lbs.   In my situation and targeted species  I will see my line fail, knot break, rod tip will snap,  split rings open, jaw of the fish dislocate/tissue fail,  etc  prior to reaching this.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Travis

[Hughesy]

Another option, if your worried about the screw eye pulling out of soft wood like balsa, is to drill a 1/4" hole and glue in a hard wood dowel. Drill a small hole for the screw eye, then glue and twist her in.

[SW Lures]

As someone here stated that the weakest link is just that. This is very true. This is funny because I use the lightest line I can. We allow the fish to run and then we peruse it. I have had fish to pull me back and forth across the river, never saw what they were.

One I cut off because I got exhausted the other broke off.

Let's try this again, for me to make my point. I wanted to know if super glue would hold a reasonable amount of pressure against a straight (not twisted) hanger. I was amazed at the result. That's when I realize what another person here state (think it was BobP). Why use any through wires? I had to agree. Never used one until now for the only reasons that I have stated earlier.

If you have read this debate Nathan, thank you for allowing it to run its course, it needed to.

Dale

ps, we can all hug and sang kumbaya.

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

Edited October 15, 2016 by DaleSW

[spoonpluggergino]

wire through it's really a sure way for the hook or the tow screw not to come out, especially if you are a musky nut like me, but there is other ways to do the same job, wire through it's time consuming and a pain to dril through the bait. and then plug all the holes that you drilled

For some of you guys that may have not seen my TUTORIAL on how to do a bait with maple dowel pin and the screw backed with a washer than epoxy the assembly in to the body of the bait, it's sounds time consuming and it is not very fast and just as good as wire through, any way see my tutorial named    My hard wood dowel pin system

 

Give it a try you will never go back to traditional wire through

 

Gino

[BobP]

One reason I don't thru-wire is that it's a PITA to bend the wire just right unless you have developed a bending jig and do a lot of the same crankbait design to make the jig worthwhile to make. I don't. There are different ways to do thru-wiring. I would split the bait in half, lay in the wire, outline it, and scratch a channel in the balsa to accommodate the wire. Then I would epoxy the halves together with 5 minute Devcon. I felt this was a good method because it was easy to split balsa with a razor blade and the epoxy/wire frame gave the bait an tough "backbone" that was good for the 6lb/cu ft density balsa I was using. But when I got in a hurry, I tried using epoxied- in hand twisted ss wire hardware. Fishing with the two styles of hardware installation showed me that either bait worked as well as the other as far as durability goes. So I use the twisted ss wire method because it's less time consuming. i believe that the durability of a balsa lure depends on how durable the finish is, and not how the hardware was installed. Your experience may differ and will lead you to a different solution. No harm, no foul. My perspective on crankbaits is that I only use them to fish for bass in an environment free from large pike or muskies. I don't care much about build method as long as the bait is reasonably durable AND CATCHES FISH. By durable, I mean a bait that will last through at least several seasons of fishing. No bait will last forever, no matter how tough it may be. If you are fishing it right, you will probably lose a titanium crankbait to a snag or a line break eventually. Relax - you can build more!