Epoxy V Cyanoacrylate For Screw Eyes (Place Your Bets )

[Travis]

Good point with the oils Dale.

 

Shank diameter screw size.  Super glue do to the viscosity can soak in and you get a thin film remaining and relatively little squeeze out.  Most end up saturating the hole with super glue to begin with.  In comparison if you use the same size shank diameter pilot hole and with epoxy you get a dry "connection" as you get very low penetration, less product in the hole/wood, and the majority squeeze out.  

 

I never used screws much.   When I did used super glue or used epoxy with over sized shank hole so as essentially only threads barely cutting into wood and then layer of epoxy "plug" in the remainder of the threads and around the shank.  

 

Shear strength and peel strength super glue tests poorer.        Your testing is really about methodology and not the product itself.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by Travis

[gliders]

Hence the reason i fitted as i normally do travis, hole diameter big enough to be almost able to push in,in fact i just pushed 1 in with pliers and no great pressure needed. C.a.glue used was thick viscosity. If e-tex also fails under similar pressure i wil consider using purely for screws in future, there's more than enough working time for just screws, and all sheared with no help from excess round eye. My only worry would be some c.a.glue aint waterproof, easily remedied -use waterproof c.a., or dab on bit epoxy over cured c.a. I done test to prove to myself epoxy was inherently stronger in this application !

[SW Lures]

Thank you Travis. I don't use screw eyes either. I've made a jig to barrel twist my eyes and to twist spinner wire, so it's no need for screws YET. I'm not going to say I won't.

With that being said I'm interested never the less, I have always been like this. You never know from things like this how something new comes out of it. It's always worth looking at things differently.

That's my two bits worth!

Have a great one,

Dale

[gliders]

Final report, i mentioned in earlier post about possible reaction with this particular epoxy and cedar, however i said i had used on cedar and set solid. The reason i mentioned this was because at the back of my mind i remembered when i was using it to seal a few meranti and cedar blanks when i first tried it about 2 years ago,although it worked well and was bullet proof, i remembered on one cedar blank in particular it reacted horribly, like fish eyes ×10. I put this down to contaminated mix at the time. So, while putting few more screws in yesterday with e-tex for final test ,i smeared a few bits of cedar and pine including original test piece with said industrial epoxy just in case. Well guess what - it cured solid on all, except the original test piece, which basically was 1 big uncured fish eye ! ,so it was reaction with that particular epoxy to that particular cedar. And the 2 screws set with e-tex ?- both sheared with absolutely no movement . I'm glad i done test now,and will continue with epoxy for screws and bibs, just not that one, the only reason i used that epoxy in test was because i had some mixed. At least i know not to use that product on cedar . ..glider.

[Travis]

Interesting, etex isn't even considered a structural adhesive and is actually a finish/top coat.  

[gliders]

Indeed travis,and the other epoxy ,made by sika is an industrial epoxy, specifically a structural epoxy, hence i thought would be good test. Hey ho, live and learn,cheers,glider.

[wchilton]

Epoxies can be sensitive to the thickness of the bond line.  If fit between the parts is too tight, the bond line will be too thin and epoxy looses strength.  You can google "epoxy bond line thickness" to get more info.  Starting point is from 0.001 to 0.006 inches for a good epoxy bond line.  I played with assembling golf clubs a while back and one way to get a consistent bond thickness was to mix small glass beads with the adhesives.

[BobP]

Etex is a decoupage or bar top epoxy that contains a solvent to aid in leveling and expelling bubbles. Glue epoxies like Devcon Two Ton don't contain solvents. My choice for mounting hardware and lips is Rod Bond Paste epoxy, which is designed for gluing Rod handles onto blanks. It has a much longer work time than most other epoxies, at least an hour. Wchilton's comment about epoxy requiring a minimum film thickness for strength is Important. If your lip won't slide into its slot smoothly, the slot is too tight. That's where a paste epoxy rather than a liquid epoxy comes in handy, imo.

[gliders]

All interesting info guy's, I'm wondering if the little extra 'give' in e-tex actually helps in this particular case?,in other words,it's resistance to crack and ability to' grab' .I've used various 'glue' epoxies for screws over few years without giving it any great thought because all have done the job well. I've also used e-tex before for screws and lips without problem. Because i fit my screws and bibs as last step in build (i like clean look this produces ) and e-tex is non yellowing and compatible (what i use as top coats ) then it's use for hardware is handy for me, even more so after that simple test. Baring in mind i never put screw eyes fully in ,so not a practical test of how most would fit to their lures. I was still surprised at strength of c.a.glue in this particular circumstance. And learned for the millionth time - 'don't assume without question '. !!

Edited November 29, 2016 by gliders

[SW Lures]

BobP, I have read several threads where you write about rod bond paste epoxy. I think that's interesting how and why you use it.

[mark poulson]

Epoxies can be sensitive to the thickness of the bond line.  If fit between the parts is too tight, the bond line will be too thin and epoxy looses strength.  You can google "epoxy bond line thickness" to get more info.  Starting point is from 0.001 to 0.006 inches for a good epoxy bond line.  I played with assembling golf clubs a while back and one way to get a consistent bond thickness was to mix small glass beads with the adhesives.

Does the same thing hold true for super glues?

[BobP]

Dale, I keep a variety of epoxies on hand: liquid, paste, and putty, and use them depending on which best suits the task at hand. I particularly like Rod Bond paste because it has a long work time and it stays where you put it, but is easy to put into hardware holes and lip slots. It takes several hours to begin forming a bond but hardens in about 8 hours. If I'm repairing a broken lip, I often use epoxy putty because it's a fast way to fill in a ragged lip slot that is now too big to comfortably fit a thinner circuit board or polycarbonate lip. I sometimes use it to glue in belly hangers if I have drilled the hole larger than the belly weight. it hardens in a few minutes and has a very short work time. I reserve the liquid epoxy for topcoating.

I don't mess with plastic bodied baits very often. If I did, I'd probably use adhesives other than epoxy for some of these tasks.

[SW Lures]

Knowing where you get rod bond paste BobP, but is there anything that you can get from a walk in store (ie Home Depot) that is comparable? If not is Pro Paste close to what you use? There is times that I could use it.

Thanks,

Dale

[BobP]

I have never used Pro Paste so can't comment. I think the longer the cure time of an epoxy, the better it usually performs. I have tried U-40 Quick Bond versus U-40 Rod Bond and prefer the longer work time of the Rod Bond. I don't like to be in a hurry when using epoxy on a batch of baits so the minimum work time of one hour for Rod Bond is a feature I like. Quick Bond's work time is around 15 minutes. It just depends on how much epoxying you have to do at a time.

Rod Bond (and probably other) rod building Paste epoxies have to be strong and somewhat flexible adhesives to hold handles to Rod blanks permanently. Both qualities are good for crankbaits too. I've never had Rod Bond fail in a rod or a crankbait.

[wchilton]

Does the same thing hold true for super glues?

Yes, but I've heard about this more in regards to epoxy than CA.  For golf clubs you can use a ca glue called "black max" that has rubber in it to make it tougher (rather than brittle) and you'd still use the glass beads to ensure even glue line width between the club head and the shaft.  In the case of wood and using thin super glues, the glue soaks into the wood pores so bond line thickness is going to be less of an issue.  For gluing wood to wood, you want a thin joint and clamp pressure drives the wood glue into the pores of the wood.  Heavy clamping with epoxy pushes most of the epoxy out of the joint since it's too thick to be pressed deep into the pores.  This is one of those areas where the specific product may work when a generalized answer says it shouldn't.  It basically gets down to you have to make a few tests to find the best glue for your particular situation.  Bond line thickness is one thing to consider, as is surface prep by both roughing up and cleaning, etc.  Here's a link to a nice write-up on adhesive "issues" to keep in mind "https://www.freemansupply.com/datasheets/adhesivesguide.pdf".