What am I doing wrong?

[jigginpig]

18 minutes ago, hoffbossn said:

Anywyas Id love for some more ideas on how to cut this nicely 

Honest to God, the best and easiest way to do a bait that is round in cross section is to lathe the basic shape, then while the ends of the stock are still square use the table saw to make all the cuts, taking care not to cut all the way through the stock. You finish the cuts by hand, but with them laid out by the saw it is easy, a monkey could do it. I mark all centerlines prior to putting the stock on the lathe, and drill pilot holes with a FINE drill bit for hardware and eyes. This way everything comes out symmetrical.  After that, it is all over but the screaming. 

As far as doing it the way you are doing it, I hate to say it, but... you are doing a good job. Freehand is tough!

Just think about marking the stock before you start carving it, because it is a lot easier to lay it out whilst everything is still nice and tidy. Take your time, and remember that each hour you spend on this is time in the bank. It all starts to come back eventually. 

SS

Edited December 19, 2016 by jigginpig

[RayburnGuy]

No worries Jigginpig. It's all good.

 

Communicating on message boards isn't the same as talking face to face. We can't see the expression on ones face or hear the tone of their voice so something is lost in the communication.

 

Ben

[jigginpig]

[SW Lures]

Huff, you will find that a 45° cut can interfere with movement. I found this the hard way. If you put distance between two of the pieces at a hinge it will not be so bad. When we work a regular job and have a mistake like this it really puts us back.

Think of it this way, if the hinge (pivot point) is very tight there will be a restriction in movement and will create unwanted problems. With stating that I do like the covering of the joint, angle cut. To give me more room I open the "V" cut on the head side to allow movement. Or put a hinge size in that allows total movement. As I make a small bait my cut gets close to 180°. I still leave a little cover over the hinge if possible.

I also round the cut edges with sand paper. I work hard on the end grains to smooth them. This includes the joint area. Since you are working on round stock triple check your lip cut with the symmetry of your bait before cutting. I'm telling what I have done and my likes, doesn't mean it's right. I've just started making them myself.

Your doing just fine IMO,

Dale

[Travis]

With regards to cutting joints several methods can work and all depends on the tools and your comfort level using them.  As mentioned square stock is one of the easiest way to ensure easy bait lay out.   Stock should be squared using a hand plane, jointer, planer, etc... or you can sand on flat surface.  Not critical but if your faces aren't parallel and perpendicular to themselves you can see what will happen as you use these faces to reference layout,  cut, drill holes, etc...  Essentially the activity you are doing will be referenced to a particular face. You can also make jigs to do so but unless you have designs worked out and make sufficient numbers a lot of effort but some guys enjoy making jigs more so than the end product.

As mentioned above table saw is a good option.   Now few things needed to do this.  First  one should start off with the basics and proper tool set up.   Anyone using a table saw should first and foremost do a basic set up.  Miter slots should be parallel to the blade and you might as well do the fence to blade at the same time also (some like to so very slightly toe the fence away from the blade on the back of the fence).  A miter gauge set up with a backer and stop blocks will handle the task accurately but  a sled a better option.   I would also suggest making a table saw cross cut sled as about the safest and most accurate/repeatable method .   I have 4 sleds in my shop I use for various crosscutting applications.  William Ng has about one of the most informative video builds and would be the one I would recommend following.   

 

Band saw is another option that very easy to do also.  Square stock needed once again and understanding of how to set it up, blade selection, etc..  I use band saw mainly for cutting joints and either do it free hand or do have a jig that holds the square blank at the needed angles and do it that way (usually when doing a lot of baits).

Your method is fine also but as you mentioned set up and tool selection becomes important.  If the box is flexing I would ditch it and make your own.   Square stock important again as when you place it into miter box you want that piece of would sitting flush 90 with the base and side wall.  It should also not move so clamp it in place, double sided sticky tape, stop block, etc... will all work.  I prefer Japanese pull saws over western style saws mostly nowadays as I have more control of the cut.    

You can also just free hand it.  Piece needs to be square and a method to firmly hold the piece.  With proper technique you can easily cut those angles with a good backsaw, dovetail saw, etc.   Takes practice but once you get the proper form down very accurate, repeatable, and fast way.  I find free hand sawing easier than a miter box.

If you are having to sand for an hour definitely need to go back and rethink how to do it.  With the proper set up you should be able to cut perfect slots in a lot of baits in a fraction of that sanding time.   Your method is fine just need to work it out properly.  

[mark poulson]

7 hours ago, hoffbossn said:

 

I have found that hinge cuts don't have to be perfectly symmetrical for a bait to swim well.  Close counts.  A course file or wood rasp will help in truing up the female side of the  joints more.   I do my first cuts at 30 degrees+-, and then sand the male end to closer to 45 to get more joint movement if I think I need it, like on the tail section.  One of the reasons I use a screw eye/hinge pin joint is so I can take the joint apart and adjust the depth of the screw eye to loosen or tighten the joint.  That lets me tune each bait until it swims the way I want it to.  Just remember, a joint that is too loose can cause the joint to jam when it hits the water, so be sure and do a test cast or five, before you finish the lure.

[SW Lures]

These are the people and others that can give you some great advice. I got one slick little way to find you hinge holes. I determine where I want to drill the hinges in. I was setting and trying to find the best way to get a good alignment between two pieces. I thought of marking with a pencil mark, but it just didn't seem easy enough. Then I thought back to when I built furniture. There is a tool (dowel pins)  that you can find center when using dowels. 

What I do  is similar to this I drill the holes location on the male side and reset them if I want. I have SS electrodes of all sizes that I use but a finishing nail will do with the head cut off. Place the cut off end into the drill hole and place both pieces on a flat surface or what is needed to get the alignment you want. Ease the two pieces together. Press them and get a witness mark on the opposite piece (female side). Then you just drill to the desired depth.

Remember the screw or wire angle does not have to be straight, it's all in the center point of both parts of the hinge(s). Ballast can make you alter the direction of the holes.

Travis I have a sled that I made. I have just got to liking the band saw. Very thin as far as the curf cut. The table saw at best takes 2X more wood out then the 3/16" band blade I got. It's curf is just less then circuit board, a nice tight fit. I do just about everything now with band saw as far as hard baits.

Hope this helps,

Dale

[SW Lures]

LOL....I forgot I have sled for the band saw to. I use this mainly for clamping as I do cutting.  It will pivot using the sled with a miter gauge.

Dale

[Travis]

45 minutes ago, DaleSW said:

Travis I have a sled that I made. I have just got to liking the band saw. Very thin as far as the curf cut. The table saw at best takes 2X more wood out then the 3/16" band blade I got. It's curf is just less then circuit board, a nice tight fit. I do just about everything now with band saw as far as hard baits.

 I use the band saw also for most of my lure work also (bass lures).  I use the table saw a lot in my shop just not so much for lure making.

[hoffbossn]

WOW you guys are the BEST this is just what I need more reading to get my greedy little eyes on, I have a bandsaw but it is older and i am BAD with it.... Blade always jumping off or cutting not how i want. I guess i just need some practice??

THANK YOU!! all for HELPING me!! 

I apprecaiite it more then you know... I will be coming back and trying to put the lure together and when i have more questions i wont hesitate as you can notice

[Travis]

If blade is jumping off the wheels you likely need to adjust the tracking.  Center you're  blade on the wheel and  adjust the tension until blade it set to the proper  tautness.  Then turn the wheel by hand and watch what direction the blade moves in regards to the back of wheel or front of wheel.  Turn the tracking knob counterclockwise and blade will move forward, turn knob clockwise and it will move backwards on the wheel (in regards to blade position on width of wheel).  Ideally you want the gullet between the tooth blades to be center and blade riding on the ever so slight crown present on the wheel.  

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/american-woodworker-blog/tune-bandsaw

Decent article on set up of the band saw and the following video about the best in regards to reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU

If the proper blade is selected for the task and set up correctly a band saw is a very useful tool in the shop.  

 

[RayburnGuy]

Travis is spot on about setting up a bandsaw. The time spent properly setting up the saw will be well spent and will save a lot of time and aggravation in the long run.

 

Ben

Edited December 20, 2016 by RayburnGuy
for content

[SW Lures]

If not set up/tuned you will end up spending money that you wouldn't had to. Basically all saws are the same, but know your saw and maintenance for it. Google a handbook if you don't have one.

The "tires" on the "wheels" can throw the blade off also. These tires are made from different materials but all can harden and break down In time. Tires being not to exspensive and the saw is old, I would put a new set on, then tune the saw after checking the machine and blade out real well.

Just throwing my tires on the wheel. 

Dale

[hoffbossn]

Whenever I back out of a cut with the bandsaw it knocks the blade off almost no matter how straight i keep it, i also cant make very straight cuts obv with that being said, ive been practicing even found a nicer wood blade then the one I had it helps but still i prefer to do it by had due to my lack of skill with the band saw...

[SW Lures]

If the band saw is sound mechanically I would start with these. With what you are saying I wonder do you have the tension on the blade correct? The next thing I am thinking about is the tires. Most tires are made from neoprene. These will harden and/or start breaking down in a few years with normal use as will any other of the materials. After these are right check your guides. These need to be a set distance from the blade, your find this in the owners manual. Goggle if you don't have one.

Other then keeping your fingers away....and oh yeah the guards on. You'll find this to be the tool to go to. I used all types of saws when I started but now it is a stop at the band saw. Yes I made some jigs but it's well worth it.

Dale

[Musky Glenn]

One other thing to check for on the band saw is the run out or wobble of the wheel. It could be a bad bearing in the wheel, but you should be able to see wobble if it is bad.

 

[jonister]

         In my experience, you aren't supposed to back out of a cut unless the saw is off. At least thats what the woodshop teacher says on the bandsaw.. Have you ever tried cutting other stuff besides wood on the wood blade? that can really screw up a blade fast, more than one would think. 

[Travis]

Typically should not back out of curve cuts when running, short straight cuts generally viewed as safe.    It just sounds like you band saw just needs  a good once over and then just set up properly once you eliminate any issues.  

[SW Lures]

As far as blades buy the right blade for the job. Example; I re-saw at times, I need that type of blade. I'll cut metal, I need that type of blade. If I'm cutting fine cuts, I'll need that type of blade for the job. I hope you have a manual, if so read it and watch Travis video. 

Get to know your machine first.

Dale

[SW Lures]

I suggest watching a safety vid or two on YouTube about band saws. 

Jonister I agree with backing out because of the smooth side of the blade and we can't follow the cut out perfectly. However I have (make) very small wedges that I place in a cut if needed. That's why I mentioned the blade condition. I cut my wood where there is very little waste. There is little to no issues with backing out.

I don't know how anybody else cuts or shapes their blanks, I cut the two dimensions. If I cut all the way through on a line I will loss my marks on the second pattern. So I pick where I'll back out to minimize any issues. At the end of cutting I just snap the waste away.  I would think most of us have to do this. Or I can glue that side back on or draw it on after. I don't have enough problems to do that.

I think all of us are saying Hoffbossn, you'll missing out not taking the time to get the saw ready to use and learn how to use it.

Take care all,

Dale

[hoffbossn]

3 hours ago, DaleSW said:

I suggest watching a safety vid or two on YouTube about band saws. 

Jonister I agree with backing out because of the smooth side of the blade and we can't follow the cut out perfectly. However I have (make) very small wedges that I place in a cut if needed. That's why I mentioned the blade condition. I cut my wood where there is very little waste. There is little to no issues with backing out.

I don't know how anybody else cuts or shapes their blanks, I cut the two dimensions. If I cut all the way through on a line I will loss my marks on the second pattern. So I pick where I'll back out to minimize any issues. At the end of cutting I just snap the waste away.  I would think most of us have to do this. Or I can glue that side back on or draw it on after. I don't have enough problems to do that.

I think all of us are saying Hoffbossn, you'll missing out not taking the time to get the saw ready to use and learn how to use it.

Take care all,

Dale

Defiantly what it sounds like.. Thank you all for Chiming in... youguys with your combined efforts have def helped me keep all my fingers me and my dad set it up but its a olddd Jet bansaw and i think we need to spend more time tuning it... and I learned a little about cutting (relief cuts) but i will def go out on my own now and watch more vids even though you guys bout got me set up in the information dept  here.... awesome btw... makes me love this forum even more... and good point on the saw.... I have no idea what material its touched before this it looks 20 years old though so may be time to get a new one LOL and also whenever i start a angled cut the blade always never wants to go where i want. it just jumps down the side of my blank.... thanks guys... also not related to the topic (but what of my comments have been LOL) i am in the market for a lathe, found two from harbor frieght they got good reviews but what would be better for what im doing? 

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-bench-top-wood-lathe-95607.html
smallerone^^

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-speed-bench-top-wood-lathe-65345.html
larger^^

[hoffbossn]

I am honored to have a topic so viewed as much as this one... Thank you all again for making my dream of catching a bass on something i made! i hope it doesnt fall aprt on the first cast  

JK you guys have prepped me better then that and i have a good construction common sense so this should of beeen ez but  man if your a perfectionist its GOTTA be an art.,.

I actually enjoy the struggle coming up with engineered solutions to my problems its as thrilling as actually being on the hunt.  Thanks again all! and last question before noon...

whats a good sealer that paint sticks too? do people use primer? or a laquer?(did i spell it right?) or like a deck sealant? thanks all again... and does the sealer work on ALL wood fishing lure applications?? THANKS!

[gliders]

Your bandsaw will almost certainly just need set up properly, watch set up video a few times. Make sure you have a decent blade for the job. 

[Travis]

Quality blades make a big difference and choosing the proper blade for the task at hand.  Tooth form and tooth set can make a difference also but can be subjective and depending on the individual.   I don't cut metals on my saw so choose blades specifically to perform well in wood.   I mainly use Highland Woodworking general purpose blades and wood slicer blades as hard to beat for the price/performance.  Have several Timberwolf blades also in the mix.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/library/manuals/rikon/bandsaw_blade_selection_guide.pdf

http://timberwolfblades.com/Blade-Selector.php#Curve

 

[SW Lures]

These people are giving good advice. As you and your dad gets the saw tuned. Start reading about shaping, ballast, lip/bib and tow eye.  Many more will chime in as you move forward.  Painting comes at the end. Gotta make it swim first. You may fail on your first, second........but you will get it. Just don't give up. Read search info or ask.

Dale