Update on the noobs fun.

[hoffbossn]

Hey guys gonna make this a little  update post from your noobie buddy here. Thanks all again so far for helping me this  has been a very wonderous experience. This is gonnabe a little update/ question / opinion post.  I got a lathe for christmas, but my dad is quite the hoarder so i have no room at the house. I will be buying a shed from home depot the "majestic"  model I think? 12X8 spot with a little roof. I plan on installing this shed in the back yard and then pouring a little concrete outside patio for painting and rolling my lathe cart outside. I am currently only making topwater lures becuz thats the easiest way to go it seems. Im stuck right now on what kind of sealer is best. WATERLUX MARINE wood sealer this stuff seems the best but very spendy. and its best if i do a seal, prime, paint , top coat? what products all work together here? do i have to do a oil paint with a oil primer? and is that waterlux marine product good enough to be a seal and a prime? im getting my airbrush tomorrow and cant even use it because i dont have the right primer. I bought some miniwax but its a dang varnish not a oily thin primer.

 

Also on a plug is a wire through construction better or just a normal drilled and expoxied system? thank you all in advance, Ive tried researching this but its not ez/. this is the best resource i have found for this but it still doesn't answer everything and only gives me a few options on a sealer.. it happens to be  $70 the popular one lol. I have already spent a ton or i would just buy it all and test and let you know what works and what doesnt. and if wood type matters its bass wood. 

[hoffbossn]

http://www.saltwaterplugs.com/saltyforum/index.php?topic=2285.0

[mark poulson]

That's a great link.

I have never been able to seal wood, except for small balsa baits.  And the problem with balsa baits is that they are more fragile, so need a good hardener before you paint, and a good, strong, hard top coat afterwards.

That's why I began using Azek PVC Decking and Trimboard (thank you JR Hopkins) for almost all of my baits.

It is totally waterproof, and hard, so water penetration isn't an issue, and it will hold up to fish teeth.

I haven't turned PCV so I can't say how it turns, but it machines just like wood, with the same tools.  Just wear a dust mask, and have a fan blowing past you so the dust goes out the door, because the sanding dust seems to have an electrostatic charge that make is stick to everything, including your sinuses.

[hoffbossn]

I have been slacking on trying pvc I need to try it soon. Just wanted to try my hand at wood first. 

[mark poulson]

4 minutes ago, hoffbossn said:

I have been slacking on trying pvc I need to try it soon. Just wanted to try my hand at wood first. 

 

It's not slacking, it's called life happens!  Take your time, play around with wood, see how you like turning and working it.  I am a carpenter, and I love all things wood!

Once you've gotten a little farther into the whole turned wood lure process, you will have plenty of time to experiment with other building materials.

[BobP]

That's a very informative link about saltwater plug finishes.   But it's worth pointing out that saltwater lures operate in an environment populated by toothy critters that we freshwater guys do not experience to the same degree.  I build bass baits fished in freshwater.  No bluefish.  Rarely pike.  Rarely musky.  Occasionally small pickerel.  If you want a simple, inexpensive, and fairly quick finish regimen that will last for years on a bass bait:  coat the raw wood with 30 minute epoxy like Devcon Two Ton.  Lightly sand it to remove the gloss and then paint the lure.  Topcoat with the same epoxy.  Done and dusted.  Worried that your lure will be chewed on by a toothy critter?  Put on two coats of epoxy topcoat.  Want something that will penetrate and strengthen the wood before applying the epoxy undercoating?  Rub on some liquid superglue before the first epoxy.

it's easy to get wrapped around the axle about finishes, but it doesn't have to happen.

Edited January 5, 2017 by BobP

[hoffbossn]

thanks mark, yeah sucks having a lathe cant use it rn, this oregon winter is extemely cold this year,  and bob thank you very much that does seem it would make a nice coat. I guess im looking for a sealer i can dip the lures in, also a top coat I can dip it in would be nice too but neither are necesary, I like dipping method, its easy and gets it in everywhere. Im thinking why not spend a little extra to make the lure last another 20 years or something, id hate to make the perf wood glide, and have the coats malfunction, 

[gliders]

Hoffbosn, there are various options for sealing ,priming etc. Each to their own, as bobp says it also depends on species etc. I build mostly for pike and no wood sealer will stop pike teeth for 20 years!,I seal wood with similar product to wood hardner or sanding sealer for ballasting or water testing, then light sand,then coat epoxy for good seal and good surface to paint. The sealer prior to epoxy also stops expanding air causing bubbles in 1st epoxy coat if using heat gun to bust epoxy bubbles after application. The epoxy base and topcoats are the main protection for me. You can paint directly on to epoxy, personaly I spray a coat of white primer prior to painting and zinsser bin or auto primer works for me,then paint,then several epoxy clear coat. If using water based paint then epoxy over this then no compatability problem. You can dip rather than spray primer,i prefer spray. Personally I dont use basswood after seeing numerous test lures splitting etc.very quickly when pierced. I recommend a lure turner if using epoxy. As for thru wire or screw eye's ,again personal choice but long screw eye's fitted properly are plenty strong and will often shear before unscrewing if you test. The lure in saltys link is thru wired popper and these are built slightly differently and benefit from dipping in  oil based sealer to seal thru wire holes.Hope this helps,may be guy's who dip and hang will have info more suitable for your choice of wood and lure type..regards........glider

Edited January 5, 2017 by gliders

[SW Lures]

I can't see a bait lasting that long when fishing. You may be after bass but you will catch other species. All you can't do is to take your time and a good wood seal. Paint and put what clear coat you like. D2T will give you a good shield, not knowing what you finish for. I have two issues with it. One is it's heavier then others but goes with the game. Heavier will most likely be stronger. The other is I'm lazy and don't like the hassle. Lol I'm limited in time to work on baits and a dip and go is faster. I want to spend more time in making a bait run properly and true.

As far as a sealer I like the Minwax wood hardener. I just brush it on and make sure to seal the areas of cuts, drill holes....no issues yet. I prime with different colors to get the color shades that I want. Sealer/Primer to me is just a colored window shade to start building the scheme color.

I have a crank that I trolled with last season and I really like. It's kinda beat up, but I'm going to re-coat it again for this season. The weight will make it heavier but this won't matter to the way I fish it, because of the upward pull of trolling or retrieving. I want to get down there anyways. I hope it would last 20 years....the reality is maybe a few more. The way that I fish this bait is one of the harshest environments you can put it through. It's a gem!! Retirement is coming for it, first bait that I completed a year or so ago.

If you can insulate that building. PROTECT your paints from freezing if it's a issue!!

Good luck,

Dale

[eastman03]

I build musky crank baits out of cedar.  After shaping I will soak the baits in Minwax spar urethane for a few minutes, then after curing (and gluing in the wire and lead) I prime the lure, then coat with one or two layers of envirotex.   Then I paint, and then more envirotex.  Not sure if I'm doing it right either, but that seems to work for me.  There sure does seem to be lots of different opinions on sealing lures, it's tough weeding through all the information.  

As far as wire through, as a hardcore musky guy, I prefer it, but there are lots of good baits out there that have screw in eyes.  That is a huge debate also in the lure building community also haha. 

[hoffbossn]

15 hours ago, gliders said:

Hoffbosn, there are various options for sealing ,priming etc. Each to their own, as bobp says it also depends on species etc. I build mostly for pike and no wood sealer will stop pike teeth for 20 years!,I seal wood with similar product to wood hardner or sanding sealer for ballasting or water testing, then light sand,then coat epoxy for good seal and good surface to paint. The sealer prior to epoxy also stops expanding air causing bubbles in 1st epoxy coat if using heat gun to bust epoxy bubbles after application. The epoxy base and topcoats are the main protection for me. You can paint directly on to epoxy, personaly I spray a coat of white primer prior to painting and zinsser bin or auto primer works for me,then paint,then several epoxy clear coat. If using water based paint then epoxy over this then no compatability problem. You can dip rather than spray primer,i prefer spray. Personally I dont use basswood after seeing numerous test lures splitting etc.very quickly when pierced. I recommend a lure turner if using epoxy. As for thru wire or screw eye's ,again personal choice but long screw eye's fitted properly are plenty strong and will often shear before unscrewing if you test. The lure in saltys link is thru wired popper and these are built slightly differently and benefit from dipping in  oil based sealer to seal thru wire holes.Hope this helps,may be guy's who dip and hang will have info more suitable for your choice of wood and lure type..regards........glider

Glider thanks for the response man well written,  do you mind telling me what wood hardener or sanding sealer you use? I totally understand if you dont, maybe just send me a PM can I use oil based paint over the epoxy layer as well? what kinda primer is good to dip in? just a wood house primer? I have a great story for you all, tried painting my popper with a spray can in the yard in the grass, got impatient tried heating it up cuz with a torch because it was taking forever in the freezing temps in Oregon right now. Got a little too close with the torch lite the lure on fire panicked, tried to pat the wet paint lure flame out and it only got paint on my sleeve and hand and flames with it, panicking more i pushed the lure and Mr helping hands onto the ground, the lure burnt grass into it and lite a nearby grass patch I stomp on everything and finally the fire is squashed, I then check over both shoulders to make sure of no witnesses... Looks like I need to wait until the cold lifts to do any painting around here.... anyways the paint cured crappily but i didnt expect this one to be good as I used a polyurthene resin type topcoat as a sealer.... learning learning oh well... But my popper has pretty good action... has some ballast in the front and the middle, walks the dog pretty well but you gotta try hard at it,,, i also was using floro witha top water i was just impatient to see the action lol...  but anyways thanks for the help... I couldnt of lite my sleeve and some frozen grass on fire without you guys LOL 

[hoffbossn]

3 hours ago, DaleSW said:

I can't see a bait lasting that long when fishing. You may be after bass but you will catch other species. All you can't do is to take your time and a good wood seal. Paint and put what clear coat you like. D2T will give you a good shield, not knowing what you finish for. I have two issues with it. One is it's heavier then others but goes with the game. Heavier will most likely be stronger. The other is I'm lazy and don't like the hassle. Lol I'm limited in time to work on baits and a dip and go is faster. I want to spend more time in making a bait run properly and true.

As far as a sealer I like the Minwax wood hardener. I just brush it on and make sure to seal the areas of cuts, drill holes....no issues yet. I prime with different colors to get the color shades that I want. Sealer/Primer to me is just a colored window shade to start building the scheme color.

I have a crank that I trolled with last season and I really like. It's kinda beat up, but I'm going to re-coat it again for this season. The weight will make it heavier but this won't matter to the way I fish it, because of the upward pull of trolling or retrieving. I want to get down there anyways. I hope it would last 20 years....the reality is maybe a few more. The way that I fish this bait is one of the harshest environments you can put it through. It's a gem!! Retirement is coming for it, first bait that I completed a year or so ago.

If you can insulate that building. PROTECT your paints from freezing if it's a issue!!

Good luck,

Dale

ITs those lures that make me belive wood carries a soul, I will probably put my paint closer in the house come freezing time i bought a dang thing of helmsman stuff but its for topcoat i think.. its really think, ill post a pic of it tonight, Im wondering if my paint i sprayed on my lure in the above story was just so cold and thats why it came out so globby.. idk i shook it up well..  how well do you think man o wars top coat stuff work? i have that and used it as a sealer on the above story, and stuff is thick when it goes on... looks very durable,,, ive used on furniture its scratch resist too, extrememly smelly though so thats a drawback whats that crank made out of? and how do you take off the old coat and make a good surface to put a new coat on? 

[hoffbossn]

1 hour ago, eastman03 said:

I build musky crank baits out of cedar.  After shaping I will soak the baits in Minwax spar urethane for a few minutes, then after curing (and gluing in the wire and lead) I prime the lure, then coat with one or two layers of envirotex.   Then I paint, and then more envirotex.  Not sure if I'm doing it right either, but that seems to work for me.  There sure does seem to be lots of different opinions on sealing lures, it's tough weeding through all the information.  

As far as wire through, as a hardcore musky guy, I prefer it, but there are lots of good baits out there that have screw in eyes.  That is a huge debate also in the lure building community also haha. 

Lol, See coming new into this I have no idea on these things... I can see why thats a hot topic though... they have pros and cons... I think the screw eyes it more waterproof while wire through more durable to and extenet,... idk but What do you use for primer if you dont mind me asking? Pm me it if you want. 

Ya this has been hard searching everything, I mean I have a day job to supp this hobby but the time to come up with scienctific answers for miniscule problems is getting harder and harder to find. But as i learn more and more I have to find less and less. thanks for your reply man

[gliders]

No problem,I use the equivalent of minwax sanding sealer or wood hardner,then epoxy ,then white zinsser bin primer,you can dip or spray bin. Good quality white auto primer also good. Both fine over epoxy prior to painting. I use water based paints so no issues. If using oil based paints then make sure its compatible with primer or just use your oil based white as undercoat.

[SW Lures]

I have spar urethane but never tried it. IT'S so thick/heavy and I started communicating here at TU. I decided to go another way.  I have a moisture gauge and a beam scale. I started with the hardener and never looked back.

I used the beam after leaving the bait in water for a extreme amount of time, then checked the weight and I tried the gauge but was not sure if the hardener was effecting my test. LOL the bait had no weight gain. So I kept going.

Others will give some great suggestions and to me it's what your comfortable with. Most importantly keeping the lure thin and fit. Coat breaks down the paints gone. Water gets to the wood.....all's gone.

Dale

[eastman03]

Honestly, I'm very very green at this bait making thing too! Just got into it last winter, have been doing tons of reading, (this forum is the best!).  Produced a few baits last winter, 2 of witch made it into the tackle box even and have caught some big pike (no muskies quite yet).  

I was just out working in the shop yesterday and today evenings, and every time i want to try something, it leaves me with more questions, good thing there is you tube (paul adams, solar baits, marling baits  lots of good help in their videos).  This thread has got me curious about the wood hardener also.  I only picked spar urethane because it seemed available and easy to use.  Also, on bigger baits like the 12" ones I'm making, I'm not too concerned with a bit of added weight.  I suppose if you are working with small bass baits and balsa any weight could change the action.    I honestly don't even know what brand that hardener is?

As far as primer, I haven't done much research on it either.  I picked some primer spray paint when I started experimenting with lures.  Seems to work well. Nothing special,  not sure if it's right or wrong.  

http://www.krylon.com/products/colormaster-primer/

 

 

[SW Lures]

Minwax is what I use. Really easy to get and I just brush on or dip. I keep it in a mason jar. I make 8" swimbaits, so I brush. I brush most of the time because of waste from dripping. I have a clamp that I hold the baits by the lip and after coating I hange them up. If I'm coating/painting and I have no lip on It yet, which I don't normally do. You can hold the bait by hangers using a Xacto knife handle. I'm getting to really like this way. It pretty well levels it's self. If not I sand lightly with grits above 240. If needed I put on another coat.

To be honest I want to try the urethane but never got around to taking a hard look at it. This would included testing. I have baits now over a year old that have been beat up pretty good and still going. So there is no reason to look elsewhere for now. My time is limited for bait making. Example JR and I have been talking about some lures. I haven't had a chance to start making them.

Hope this helps,

Dale

P.S., always take your time sealing around the hanger/tow eyes and lip. That will be the worst place to be quick and miss a spot.

Edited January 11, 2017 by DaleSW
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