MarkNY Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I made a goby trolling lure a while back. I actually caught some browns on it the very first time I used it. But I had a problem with the slot that holds the through wire opening up. It let moisture in and caused the etex to crack. Trying to figure out what I did wrong. Bait is made from poplar and I used it in very cold water. I think I did 2 coats of etex. I'd like to do more but always tend to create too much build up around the wire eyes and lip. I used body filler to fill the slot. So my questions are; is it ok to use bondo for filling a through wire slot? should I be doing more than 2 coats of etex? Any ideas as to what caused this failure? thanks a lot, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Dont quote me on any of this as I am a total noob but i have put some decent reading hours on the forum here, the topcoat/paint/primer/sealant combo is tricky and maybe something to be looked at here, maybe this paint isnt good at expansion and contrastion as other paints are? I know nothing on bondo, is it leaving moisture in the lure? again I could be not even in the same sport here just trying to help as others have helped me good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Bondo is a filler and doesn't have an real structural value. I would fill the wire slot with D2T, or an epoxy putty, not E tex, and just top it off with bondo. When I use bondo as a filler, I always put some super glue on it ,after I sand it down, to make it stronger. The super glue also seals it better than just bondo alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Basically, as long as your finish remains totally waterproof, anything you use as a filler is OK as long as it doesn't shrink or expand due to temperature much differently than the wood surrounding it. if your finish begins to leak water, no wood bait that will last long. Epoxy putty works well to fill wood gaps and it hardens in a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastman03 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 First of all, that is an awesome looking lure! As far as bondo, I'll have to second what Mark P said. From what I've read, there are not many substances that are rated as a structural gap filler except epoxy. The only thing is, bondo is holding half of the old cars on the road together, so you would think it would last. I'm curious to know what you find. I fill the slot in my baits with a bit of epoxy then finish the top bit with bondo. I just did two tonight using ecopoxy, something I've never tried (I'll let you know how it goes) As far as the bondo in the slot, is it possible that it never filled in the entire slot all the way to the bottom. I know the very first lure I did I tried bondo and I made a huge mess trying to force it down into the slot. It was not viscous enough to flow into the slot around the wire. Perhaps that allowed moisture in somehow? I like the idea of that epoxy putty BobP. That is something I will have to look into some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretcher66 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 you can also mix fine sawdust with wood glue. but try not to get it overflowing to much out of your slot. it is a mutha to sand down once it is dried. but it helps keep the bouancy of the wood since it is mostly the wood that was originally removed. and another obvious option is PVC it wont crack or split. but as far as the paint goes it all depends on your top coat being sealed and be sure your paint is completely dry before topcoating it. it is wintertime so more moisture is in the air. try to hang the baits in the house for a couple days to dry after you paint them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 It may not be the bondo, clear coat etc. I had to take time to read BobP statement because I agree with him on this thought. If you are fishing for smaller species, why put a through wire in. Can/did your through wire spin? If it can or did nothing will keep it from breaking the seal at the surface. Which creates failure from the start. This really sounds like what happened. Woodie who makes musky baits has stated that most baits really don't need a through wire I believe. My memory . I have tested 1" hangers and it will hold most med-large size fish. As long as they are put in properly. Nice looking bait. Hopes this helps, Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 This is a rule of mine that I wanted to add. The hangers can not move at the surface! I bring epoxy up to the surface when installing just about everything. This is my first line of defence to water intrusion (first shield). These drill holes can not be compromised. Then a sealer (second shield), paint and my last shield....clear coat. Dale Sounds like a star wars movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 hi. heres how we do baits. when wire thru we would use epoxy mixed with fine sawdust inbelly slot. seal 2 coats of etex primer then paint colors . 2 more etex coats. one major problem we foundis. poplars have a tendency of swelling when breached in water submersion. when a bait swells minutely it cracks/flakes paints from within.. we only build wire thru lures now BUT we never have had a screw failure ever in building.if you use screws pre-drill and use a good glue/epoxy when assembling. nice lure you built bye the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNY Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks for all the great info. Very helpful. The slot on this lure is quite deep, maybe 1/2". It's a good size lure. I epoxied the through wire in. I remember having difficulty getting bondo to fill the entire gap. I know I had a gap between the through wire and bondo. I'll definitely use thickened epoxy to fill most of that gap next time and then finish off with bondo as it is easy to sand. One other thought I have is I think I may have cracked the finish while tuning the lure. I used .092 wire on this I think, stiff stuff. The lures swelled and you could actually see the etex stretch before it cracked. Then when it dried, it cracked. Either way progress has been made with these conversations. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastman03 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) This has been a very useful topic for me as well, good work everyone. Mark, if you don't mind me asking, how do you cut your slots in the your bait? I run my bait through a table saw when the lure is still in a square block, but it's tricky to line it up perfectly straight, maybe I just need a better table saw... the epoxy i filled most of the slot with seems to be working very well. Just top up the rest with bondo and it's ready for primer and envirotex. Edited January 11, 2017 by eastman03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNY Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hi Eastman, on this lure I used a wood cutting sawsall blade by hand. The blade has a hook tooth. I clamped bait in my vise. Used a hacksaw to start the cut on my centerline then used other blade to cut slot to proper depth. I used the hook tooth to widen slot where needed. Worked pretty good but I'm still looking for better methods. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretcher66 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hey MarkNY are you running just a tail hook on your lure? and not a bottom hook from the belly? if that is the way you are running the lure there is no need to even cut a slot down the lure for doing thru-wire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fzSQgy_6QU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNY Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hi stretcher, great idea. I omitted the belly hook on that lure because i designed it as a trolling lure and wanted to test it with just the back hook. Worked great. I think for Lake trout, browns and walleye one hook is fine. Get into silver species like salmon or rainbows and I'd rather have 2 hooks. I want to make a casting version of this lure so I'm gonna put a belly hook on the next one. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Like Dale says above, if the lure is poplar or similar hard wood I wouldn't see any need to use a thru-wire. You can twist your own screw eyes from stainless wire and make them any length you think is appropriate, then simply drill a hole and epoxy them in the lure. I've never had one pull out even on hard fighting striped bass. It saves a bunch of hassle compared to a thru-wire frame. JMHO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNY Posted January 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Bob, I just tried my first screw eyes yesterday and I agree with you, these are solid. I used manufactured screw eyes with threads. Saves so much work. When I get the proper wire I'll try twisting my own. Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Vman did the tests and on a balsa bait the balsa will break before a homemade, epoxied throughwire. So if you may hook into something (large pike/Muskie or some saltwater fish) that could break the balsa, you may want to throughwire. This would be less of an issue with stronger wood. The key thing you said in your second description - you said the bait started to swell. This is a dead giveaway that there was water intrusion. I did not notice you mentioning a seal coat. If you didn't do one that is likely part of the issue. Once the bait is completed except for rigging and paint, try a thin epoxy seal coat. Then install your through wire etc as before. clemmy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just my little ole opinion. If you are after large species with large teeth go to a hard wood like poplar, cedar, etc. Your lure may survive longer. I've been making some and they are well received by the people who are using them. Of course how many you catch wears them out. At this time it appears that the clear coat is just getting abused. One has got through to the paint. All things considered everybody's happy. These are friends who will tell me straight up. I'm happy, Dale 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 7 hours ago, DaleSW said: Just my little ole opinion. If you are after large species with large teeth go to a hard wood like poplar, cedar, etc. Your lure may survive longer. I've been making some and they are well received by the people who are using them. Of course how many you catch wears them out. At this time it appears that the clear coat is just getting abused. One has got through to the paint. All things considered everybody's happy. These are friends who will tell me straight up. I'm happy, Dale Have you tried PVC for you toothy critter baits? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Several of the guys have given very good answers. You hit on the problem when you mentioned tuning it and might have cracked the seal. If wood is moist or dry and completely sealed, it will stay the same size unless the temp changes. The release of or gaining of moisture will change the size of the wood. If you look at the bondo closely it didn't crack but the bond between the wood and bondo did crack. The big clue was the side crack that didn't have bondo. The wood changed size and cracked the clear coat. That is one more beautiful lure. Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 No Mark, I told you that I was going to give it a try some time ago. I just started with the poplar and really like working with it. But I plan on giving a try soon. The store has some scrape trim and I'll pick up a piece. I want to start on that newt I have been talking about. Might be a good combination. X2 Musky Glen Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Sure sounds like a result of dissimilar material not much different than gasket scrub on a cast iron block and aluminum heads? Sorry for the automotive analogy but it sounds very similar since wood and bondo certainly will react differently due to temperature. No matter what the cause if your using water based paints this will be the result if infiltrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
