hoffbossn Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Guys been shopping around for airbrushes for a long time decided to go with the HP-CS plus due to good reviews and it most likely being the last airbrush i will ever buy, Now one of my biggest questions is should i roll with the .2mm needle (small vert cup) or the .3/.35mm needle (med siz cup) I havent ever used a airbrush so i cant guesstamate which would be better, i only plan on making like 5 baits at a time no crazy production going on, so with that being said since i am not painting big batches do i need the bigger cup? whats more convinent whats all aroundbetter and why? thanks guys. splurging on this so wanna make sure im gettin the best I can get. Thanks all PS i dont plan on painting really much anything other then fishing lures, maybe a paintball mask everntually idk. i will be using waterlox as a sealer then envirotex as a primer and then envirotex again as a topcoat. thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'll try and make a suggestion: the HP-CS has a large cup, the HP-BS has the small cup I prefer the BS for the reason you posted I only do baits for myself and it just makes sense to me to use the small cup as in my opinion you have a better view of the bait while painting the big cup can get in the way. As for needle size I personally would go with the .3 or the .35mm as you may want to experiment with different brands of paint and contrary to some they are not made equally, purpose made AB paint has a more refined pigment hence the overinflated price per ounce but many cheaper brands do not refine theirs and are a bear to get spraying correctly in smaller needle/nozzle combo's you should be able to pull fine detail with the .3 or .35 while painting almost all types of baits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, gone2long said: I'll try and make a suggestion: the HP-CS has a large cup, the HP-BS has the small cup I prefer the BS for the reason you posted I only do baits for myself and it just makes sense to me to use the small cup as in my opinion you have a better view of the bait while painting the big cup can get in the way. As for needle size I personally would go with the .3 or the .35mm as you may want to experiment with different brands of paint and contrary to some they are not made equally, purpose made AB paint has a more refined pigment hence the overinflated price per ounce but many cheaper brands do not refine theirs and are a bear to get spraying correctly in smaller needle/nozzle combo's you should be able to pull fine detail with the .3 or .35 while painting almost all types of baits. great answer, how often do you wish you had a bigger cup? And i havent found a BS with a .3mm needle only .2, so if i go the BS route I will have to purchase another needle it sounds like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) If you're only going to buy one air brush, I'd say to buy the .3mm nozzle/needle and the med. cup. I have the HP-C Plus, and that size cup, along with the .3mm nozzle/needle works for 99% of my painting. I can put only a little paint in, or more, if I need it, and the cleanup is the same. The medium cup holds plenty of paint for most of my baits. If I have a lot of single color paint to do, like undercoating multiple swim baits, I use my Badger siphon brush with the .5mm setup. It came with bottles for the paint, and I feel like I could shoot any paint through it. I have found a smaller nozzle/needle, like the .2mm, requires paint with much finer paint particles, and lots of thinning. Instead, I use an aftermarket inline Iwata air control valve right under the air brush, and am able to cut down on the air and paint flow quickly if I want to do detail work. Coast Airbrush only shows the option to covert to a .2mm needle on the HP-C Plus, so it looks like that is the air brush that would let you have the option to switch nozzles/needles in the future. http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=34 Edited January 24, 2017 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, mark poulson said: If you're only going to buy one air brush, I'd say to buy the .3mm nozzle/needle and the med. cup. I have the HP-C Plus, and that size cup, along with the .3mm nozzle/needle works for 99% of my painting. I can put only a little paint in, or more, if I need it, and the cleanup is the same. The medium cup holds plenty of paint for most of my baits. If I have a lot of single color paint to do, like undercoating multiple swim baits, I use my Badger siphon brush with the .5mm setup. It came with bottles for the paint, and I feel like I could shoot any paint through it. I have found a smaller nozzle/needle, like the .2mm, requires paint with much finer paint particles, and lots of thinning. Instead, I use an aftermarket inline Iwata air control valve right under the air brush, and am able to cut down on the air and paint flow quickly if I want to do detail work. Coast Airbrush only shows the option to covert to a .2mm needle on the HP-C Plus, so it looks like that is the air brush that would let you have the option to switch nozzles/needles in the future. http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=34 dang, so i can only use .2mm in the BC model. excellent so HP CS it is sounding like. .3mm or .35mm? any preference? and mark why the aftermarket part? isnt their a control on the brush for pressure? and how odd is it too buy one of these used? i probably wont as the $ diif is miniscue. thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 My link shows a .3mm needle for the HP-C Plus. I can't find an HP-CS. Iwata sells brushes with an air control valve built in...they are called MAC air brushes, and it's their Hi-Line series. I didn't buy one to begin with, because I didn't realize how handy it would be, so I added the valve later. I've never used a Hi-Line brush, so I don't know how well they work, but, if I were buying a new brush right now, it would be their Hi-Line HP-CH brush, with the built-in air control valve. Iwata makes really good stuff, so I wouldn't be worried. http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, mark poulson said: My link shows a .3mm needle for the HP-C Plus. I can't find an HP-CS. Iwata sells brushes with an air control valve built in...they are called MAC air brushes, and it's their Hi-Line series. I didn't buy one to begin with, because I didn't realize how handy it would be, so I added the valve later. I've never used a Hi-Line brush, so I don't know how well they work, but, if I were buying a new brush right now, it would be their Hi-Line HP-CH brush, with the built-in air control valve. Iwata makes really good stuff, so I wouldn't be worried. http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=35 lol... just when I thought i knew what i was getting into then BAM hours of mroe reading lol... I thought the HP cs and plus are the same... differences? sorry i will do some more research, and why hp ch over the c plus? thanks for putting onthe teacher hat today mark... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Maybe they are the same thing. I was just unable to find a HP-CS. The built-in MAC (micro air control) valve in the Hi-Line HP-CH just seems handier than having to add one inline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 hmmm i see,... it is quite a price jump but it seems the conveinece is worth it. thanks again mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 The separate MAC valve is $25, so you're paying an extra $15 for the HP-CH ($245) vs the HP-C Plus with the separate MAC valve ($205+25). It's up to you...they both do the same job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I have an Iwata HP .02 tip brush and it will not shoot some pearls or flake ab paint consistently. I also have an Iwata Revolution B with the small cup. It comes with a .03 tip and will shoot any ab paint just fine. I use the Revolution almost exclusively. If you're worried about price, the Revolution is the least expensive Japanese made high quality Iwata brush at around $90. I really don't know what the higher priced Iwatas have that the Revolution doesn't (except for very pricey doodads like a trigger stop or MAC control) and have enjoyed using mine for the past 5-7 years. As far as cup size, I have no problem shooting color undercoating with this brush. It's the perfect size for crankbait painting in my experience with the 1/16 oz cup. Anything larger would be unwieldy overkill to me because I don't do motorcycle gas tanks or autos. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) I just got today an HP-CS. My first time airbrushing so nothing to compare it to. Cup size is easy to get my finger in to clean. Not sure I would want/need it any smaller. I got the whole kit with compressor, paint, etc from Amazon with free ship for $300. Comp is very quiet. We will see how long it last tho. Edited January 24, 2017 by MonteSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, hoffbossn said: great answer, how often do you wish you had a bigger cup? And i havent found a BS with a .3mm needle only .2, so if i go the BS route I will have to purchase another needle it sounds like? HaHa I thought you would ask that question I have 5 brushes 2 Iwata HP-BS's 1 Paasche Talon with 3 needle/nozzle combo's, a Talon bottle fed and a NEO which is an Iwata in name only as it's made in china go figure but with all that said I use my BS's 90% of the time. The talon has a .25, a .38 and a .66 needle/nozzle set and it also has a fan nozzle for massive coverage that I'll never use for bait making I will still tell you all day long to go .3 or .35 for your needs as stated pearls and heavy particulate paint will not shoot very well with anything smaller. The Talon has a large honking cup on it but weight certainly might come into play the thing is a beast. I might add that we are talking about the Eclipse HP-BS I think you may be looking at another model as the Eclipse comes with a .35 from Iwata but I didn't mention that CS, BS, SBS and BCS are cup configurations for all models of Iwata brushes in several model lines Confused yet :-) Edit: Picture to show variation of brush type per OP's question Edited January 24, 2017 by gone2long 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigginpig Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) I'm thinking about all this stuff myself. I concentrated on the building side of luremaking for the last few years, figuring painting would be easier, so I would focus on the hard stuff first. I'm getting to the point that I am usually happy with what I carve, so I need to focus on learning how to paint now. I am using an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS with the big cup and a .3mm nozzle. I never have any issues with coverage. What I DO have issues with is tiny details I try to add, but I am open to the possibility that I can chalk that up to operator error. I will say that I never fill that silly cup up with paint. I prefer to dip and hang white base coats, rather than spray them. So the cup seems superfluous to me. I mix paint in little plastic cough syrup type cups, and add more if and when I need it. I want to get a brush with a smaller nozzle just to add little hints of color here and there or to add fine detail. My hands shake a lot, I don't know why they just always have, and I think it might be a little easier to add the detail with a brush purpose-made for the application. Still, I would have to agree with the idea that a .3mm tip is probably the best overall compromise between coverage and detail for someone painting small items like fishing lures. Great topic, I am glad it came up when it did. SS Edited January 25, 2017 by jigginpig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Definitely get a .3 or .35. As said above, some special effect paints like pearls are hard/impossible with a .2. I view .2 as more for illustration with inks, etc. if you are doing "art". There ARE things you can use it for, but I would never recommend one for your only lure airbrush. I have a Micron-SB with a .2 very nicely made, but I almost always use my eclipse BCS or BE-1 instead. The last thing you probably want is more options, but I would think the eclipse SB would be versatile. You can use .35 in it or .5 for basecoats, etc., the side cup allows you to see and can be used with a side bottle. I would also recommend getting a cheap Badger or Paasche H with a big needle eventually as a second gun. Out could use these for basecoats, clear intercoats etc. where a wide spray is nice but detail not necessary. I have 2 cheap Badgers I got from their blemish garage sale outlet on their site. Clemmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigginpig Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hey Clemmy, do you use any sort of quick-disconnect apparatus or some sort of air distribution block with the multi-brush setup? I would love to have a multi-brush setup to facilitate speedy work. (No changing colors or whatever) SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Metered-Airbrush-Manifold-Female/dp/B002FEDASS SS, think this is what you're talking about - an airbrush manifold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Yes Ss, I have Iwata disconnects. I don't know that it really is that more efficient. If you were doing production you would likely do 10-20 of a single pattern, so only a single gun would likely be used. I.e. Basecoats on them all, then moss green on all, etc. When it's nice is when you are just making up patterns. If experimenting with a craw pattern you could have one with burnt umber, one with green candy and one with orange, and go back and forth if you think it needs a bit more etc. Nothing that can't be done with a single brush though. Back on topic though, I agree with what you said for.2, but only really needed if you want to do ultra realistic. Another option for detail is stencils though. If you want a little softer edge hold the stencil a little away from the lure body. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigginpig Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Thanks mate. I do fly by the seat of my pants, and make stuff up as I go depending on what sorta mood I am in. Maybe that is why the idea of multiple brushes jives with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretcher66 Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 7 hours ago, mark poulson said: If you're only going to buy one air brush, I'd say to buy the .3mm nozzle/needle and the med. cup. I have the HP-C Plus, and that size cup, along with the .3mm nozzle/needle works for 99% of my painting. I can put only a little paint in, or more, if I need it, and the cleanup is the same. The medium cup holds plenty of paint for most of my baits. If I have a lot of single color paint to do, like undercoating multiple swim baits, I use my Badger siphon brush with the .5mm setup. It came with bottles for the paint, and I feel like I could shoot any paint through it. I have found a smaller nozzle/needle, like the .2mm, requires paint with much finer paint particles, and lots of thinning. Instead, I use an aftermarket inline Iwata air control valve right under the air brush, and am able to cut down on the air and paint flow quickly if I want to do detail work. Coast Airbrush only shows the option to covert to a .2mm needle on the HP-C Plus, so it looks like that is the air brush that would let you have the option to switch nozzles/needles in the future. http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=34 X2 I use the same 2 guns as you do mark.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 36 minutes ago, stretcher66 said: X2 I use the same 2 guns as you do mark.... Obviously, great minds think alike! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 SO with all being said I am leaning towards the iwata HP CH with the .03mm nozzle. I love it when you guys take off with my topics on your conversations... I have learned a TON from this thread. thank you all again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Well hoffbossn, let me throw this wrench into the mix. I don't have good hand and eye coordination and it gave me a fit trying to learn to use a double action airbrush. I now use Badger 200 and a 200 nh, with two different tips. (Don't know tip sizes but can tell they aren't the same. It just made life easy for me not having to worry about the changing spray pattern of a double action. Good luck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 22 hours ago, Musky Glenn said: Well hoffbossn, let me throw this wrench into the mix. I don't have good hand and eye coordination and it gave me a fit trying to learn to use a double action airbrush. I now use Badger 200 and a 200 nh, with two different tips. (Don't know tip sizes but can tell they aren't the same. It just made life easy for me not having to worry about the changing spray pattern of a double action. Good luck Good point although I don't have that issue I could see that being helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 22 hours ago, Musky Glenn said: Well hoffbossn, let me throw this wrench into the mix. I don't have good hand and eye coordination and it gave me a fit trying to learn to use a double action airbrush. I now use Badger 200 and a 200 nh, with two different tips. (Don't know tip sizes but can tell they aren't the same. It just made life easy for me not having to worry about the changing spray pattern of a double action. Good luck MG, He's young and just starting out, so I'm sure he can pick up how to use a double action air brush pretty easily. I think it's like learning to use a baitcaster. Of course, I've discovered that being able to use a dual action brush doesn't mean I can actually paint. I guess it is the same as a baitcaster. I can use one really well, but I can't catch fish! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
