danthefisherman Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Hello TU! I'm pretty new to this site but have been trying to perfect my baitmaking skills for awhile. Finally decided to make my own account instead of lurking around all alone haha. I beg forgiveness if this topic has already been covered, but I couldn't find what I was looking for through the search function. If this post is too redundant, a link to an already existing post would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Anyways, I was wondering if you guys have any tips or tricks regarding the installation of wire harnessing in resin baits that you would be willing to share. My current project is a 9 in glide bait and I want to install a wire harness to anchor the ballast weights and to reinforce its swiveling hook hangers. My thought is that the harness would also suspend the ballast weights nicely in the middle of the bait instead of having them sitting on the bottom and potentially showing through the resin. It's a bit hard to explain, but hopefully it makes sense. Any input welcome, thanks! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I haven't tried this but have thought about it many times. My plan would be to mold the lead onto the formed harness. If you needed ballast other than at the belly eye, you could form extra loops to mold the ballast on to. With a front, tail and belly eyes, you have at least 3 triangulated points of contact which is all you need to hold the assembly in the mold. It would mean making another mold for the lead pouring, also a harness jig so that the wire form is repeatable. You had better do lots of prototype testing so that you know exactly how much lead and where you want it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I make a story board with finishing nails to make my internal harnesses for various molds. I do most of the weighting with sinkers and slide onto the wire and crimp where needed. Isn't too complicated once you figure it out. Mold the first bait with just the harness and figure your weighting on that bait. Can do some of the weight distribution also at this point also. It will get you a close first "fishable" prototype. Only trick is making sure you harness is straight and the mold made in a manner to have proper placement on of the harness. You will get some now and then that the harness moves some and the blank comes out bad in regards to weight placement. Easiest to chuck those. If your indexing pins for the line tie and hook hangers are sized properly so the harness slides on snug you will eliminate most of the issues with the harness shift. Edited February 14, 2017 by Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Just wonder if you would be able to get balance spot on if your particular glider needs to be critically balanced ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, gliders said: Just wonder if you would be able to get balance spot on if your particular glider needs to be critically balanced ? Good point, but not difficult to solve; Find the balance point of the bare harness and make a measurement note. The harness lead can be trimmed on future assemblies to achieve the same balance point. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthefisherman Posted February 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Thanks for the replies guys! Your idea sounds a lot like what I'm planning to try, Travis...Only I'm thinking of using wire instead of the finishing nails . For the sinkers, do you resort to slicing them to size or buying all the different weights? Some sinkers are pretty malleable and easy to cut, but others not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 I don't use resins so I can't help you with that. I can help you with ballast. I know of one here that buys lead wire cuts it as needed. I myself pour my ballast in a aluminum mold that I made. I'll use almost anything to get the right amount. Example is using a egg sinker, cutting it in half, buckshot pellet, BB's shoot for rattles and ballast, ss ball bearing, worm weight or whatever will work. I don't do much cutting. I'm making another mold to eliminate this creative thinking. The first one has 1/4" diameter weights. The next will be a 1/8". I'll have to preheat the mold completely before pouring. There is a point that we all try to hit and that is suspending. I realized that even water temperature can make a bait that did suspend, not at this perticular temperature. So I get the bait somewhere close to what I want. Usually a slow floating to get out of structure and trouble. Dake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 I buy various sizes and styles. I try using bass casting sinkers or bullet sinkers to get the bulk mass correct but typically on smaller baits. I prefer not to mess with melting pouring lead but have done so a few times. I have used heat shrink tubing with shot to weight in areas or use golf weighting tape (frequently) for adjustments. At times best to modify the harness to dip in areas you want to add weight lower or higher. Once you get one worked out becomes no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Make notes as you go! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Absolutely agree with Mark. Once you know what the weight balance is that you want you can try this. I draw a out line of the bait. Then I make a mark inside of the outline where the ballast is. I put down the weight amount. Where I want the hangers, lip/bib and angle, center lines and whatever you want. Then I snip/grab the image off of the scan on a computer. Take that in just keep putting it on a word sheet to fill the sheet up. This is two dimensions of the bait, side view and bottom. Measure the center line on your piece of wood. Cut your outline out then I use wood glue on the back off the paper outline. I line up all lines and let dry. I do all of my drilling (the points are on the paper outline) but totally to depth (Marks help), cut the lip, etc. Then do the outline by cutting the outline. Watch cutting to much to fast, if not you will cut your pattern off. Shape and you are there. Complete the drilling to proper depth. If you split the bait for a thru wire you can put it on you pattern paper for help. Watch your ballast with your thru wire. This good way of combining several task. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I think this is where cellphone cameras really shine. I trace out the bait on a piece of notebook paper, add dimensions and total weight, ballast weight and locations, bill size and angle/location, and hand drawn cross sections, if it's a unique design. And any other things that are a part of the lure. Then I lay the actual prototype bait, unpainted, onto the same piece of paper, and take several pictures of the whole thing. That way I have a record of what I did, so I can jog my memory (better than a slap upside the head) when I want to make another, or play around to try and get a different action. I email the pictures to my computer, so I can save them in my lure folder. Edited February 15, 2017 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Got what you mean vman ,what I'm wondering is will the resins density /bohyancy be consistently exact enough for making say a very slow horizontal sinking glider with encased ballast? Out of interest dan ,what type of glider are you building ? ...glider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 I do the same Mark. I just hook up to the computer and drop the link in on spreadsheet with all the info too. Now I'm getting lazy and put everything on the pattern. All the info is right there on the cut out where I'm working. I keep the original on the wall for reference and measuring with a profile gauge. I just like the way I started doing hard bait with the original. Its like a master. The point that you showed me was the tearing/blowing out the sides of the thin baits by drilling ballast holes. I do this on all of the baits now. I don't have that problem anymore Mark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Have always used patterns also. Everything is on them. I do jot the information down in a book with a photocopy of the original pattern to replicate it. I make most of my patterns on 1/8 thick pieces of wood as last longer than paper and can use for many, many, years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Dale, I'm pretty sure the idea to coat the wood before drilling with super glue was Ben's, but I'm happy I could share it and that it works for you. Travis, I use patterns, too. Actually I make my patterns out of the cardboard from the back of a tablet of paper, and coat it with clear lacquer to keep it somewhat stiff. I'm too lazy to make them from wood. I just cut them out with a pair of scissors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 12 hours ago, gliders said: Got what you mean vman ,what I'm wondering is will the resins density /bohyancy be consistently exact enough for making say a very slow horizontal sinking glider with encased ballast? If the resin is bought pre-mixed with micro-balloons then the density should be consistent. If you are mixing your own, then it is up to you to weigh out the parts and keep notes. After the casting process, you can measure the density at that point (keeping notes) by using Archimedes dunk test. If the density is way off the standard, then you know not to waste time with an intricate paint job. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthefisherman Posted February 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 19 hours ago, gliders said: Got what you mean vman ,what I'm wondering is will the resins density /bohyancy be consistently exact enough for making say a very slow horizontal sinking glider with encased ballast? Out of interest dan ,what type of glider are you building ? ...glider Wow, this is some pretty helpful and sound advice guys, thank you! I can see now how pictural drawings can help in visualizing ballast/harness placement and other important info. I mix my own resin and it got pretty confusing only having experimental number values to work with. I guess I'll have to start doing this! Glider: I'm working a 9.75" two piece trout glide bait. I'm active on Swimbait Underground and its grass roots section, but I thought it would be beneficial for me to join a forum more specific to baitmaking as well! This will be my third attempt at making this bait just the way I want it, and I just hope it turns out well haha. I've been working on this project for a long time and have the entire process documented on SU if your interested in checking it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Interested to have a look dan,take it i need to register though ? Is swimbait underground connected to tackle underground.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthefisherman Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 hours ago, gliders said: Interested to have a look dan,take it i need to register though ? Is swimbait underground connected to tackle underground.? Not that I know of, so yeah I think you may have to register to view topics. There is a whole grass roots section for all the baitmakers on SU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
