Backlash85 Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 I am currently making masters out of wood with the intent of molding to soft plastic but having a super hard time trying to figure out how to produce this wedge style tail. I am thinking that I will have to bust out some clay in order to achieve the correct look. If anyone has any experience in making these type of wedge style tails - I would appreciate some insight.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 A clay is a good option. A good carver could do it in wood, but that IS NOT ME. LOL If you are NOT making these for others, you could buy a sample, cut it off, glue to your wood master. Still, more fun with a heat hardening clay like Sculpy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I am currently working on a bait like this too. I have started to use wood to frame it (the side view of tail fin, the back plate which is oval and then two wooden ridges on the side leading towards the body). I was planning on filling in the sloping parts with clay I carved one and it wasn't perfectly symmetrical. I think this framed/skeletal method will create a perfectly symmetrical tail. BUT - as I type this I have just realized that I could use sculpy in skeletal slabs like this to make the tail - it can be done in stages and rebaked as I add to it. I have tested this in other masters for molds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlash85 Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 @Landry would like to see how it ends up. Please keep us posted as I will be doing the same. I have a lot of access to some good wood carvers so may have them give me a couple tutorials (like at the store just a bit stubborn on approaching for help) as I know this is a craft and not just some tip n go workflow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I will post pics soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustomBaits4You Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just a reminder guys. Huddleston has that tail patented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Mine is different than a Huddleston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 That shape wouldn't be too hard with a dremel sanding drum id cut the tail profile out with a band saw.. Then take some off the "tail shaft" with the dremel, leaving the "tail end" higher..... Then "burn in" the depressions (top and bottom) using the diameter of the drum Then you'll have an ugly ridge in the middle... With some careful work, you can break the edges of that ridge with the dremel, then clean it up with a small piece of sand paper and some finger nail files Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitjunkys Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Landry said: Mine is different than a Huddleston. It don't have to be the same, read there patent really well if you decide to take to Market, he don't fool around. He chases guys down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I read his patent. It has hard to say where his tail design patent rights end. I had a hard time deciphering the key characteristics that are patented The Rago Alpha Trout looks very similar to his. How is that bait free from patent infringement? Making it for me mostly but I would sell some in the side to support my sickness. I appreciate your input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djs Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I call bs on Ken Huddleston check out the date of this patent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 The fun part is you can call BS all you want. Fact is that particular patent would be long expired, and the USPTO approved Ken's patent. It would be up to you to pay a lawyer and fight it, then if you lose you're on the hook for a whole lot more than just you're legal fees. Far as I am concerned he has spent the time and money filing for and maintaining the patent, i'd let him have it. You would be violating the patent whether you sold any or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 How are Rago and now Live Target getting away with using a wedge style tail??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustomBaits4You Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I didn't say Ken patented a wedge tail, he patented a "vortex tail" the baitsmith mag was canceled from production because they made a vortex tail. I commented that Huddleston has the tail patented because the refrence pictures are literally huddlestons and I know Ken doesn't mess around about people copying his tail. I think the reason rago, live target, and many smaller companies get away with it is because it's different enough. No one that is getting away with a wedge tail made it look like huddlestons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 And so I think I am ok then. Mine is quite different. It is more different than the two I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustomBaits4You Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) If you are going to sell them, it costs like 100 bucks at the patent office for them to tell you if you will be infringing or not. Well worth it imo Edited March 9, 2017 by CustomBaits4You Spelling error 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djs Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 54 minutes ago, DaveMc1 said: The fun part is you can call BS all you want. Fact is that particular patent would be long expired, and the USPTO approved Ken's patent. It would be up to you to pay a lawyer and fight it, then if you lose you're on the hook for a whole lot more than just you're legal fees. Far as I am concerned he has spent the time and money filing for and maintaining the patent, i'd let him have it. You would be violating the patent whether you sold any or not. What I was meaning he did not invent anything new most of everything we do in soft plastics has been done before. Patents are all about the money plan and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 It doesn't really matter, the person that files the patent thinks they invented something worth protecting, spend the money to have a patent attorney prep and file an application. If the USPTO agrees that its not infringing on an existing design etc then they approve it, if its a utility patent then they just have to keep up with the fees to maintain it. Doesn't much matter if you, me or anyone else agrees with it, it was approved and now he has a legal right to protect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landry Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Wow. I really opened up a can of worms on this one. Lol. I am just a small volume basement bait maker - mostly making baits for me and a small group of friends. I will likely not bother pursuing this. It's just not worth the trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I just looked into this and he was a smart man, from what I can see he has multiple patent numbers on this. Utility and Design patents on the tail and Utility and Design patents on the different rate of fall deal. Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 8 hours ago, DaveMc1 said: The fun part is you can call BS all you want. Fact is that particular patent would be long expired, and the USPTO approved Ken's patent. It would be up to you to pay a lawyer and fight it, then if you lose you're on the hook for a whole lot more than just you're legal fees. Far as I am concerned he has spent the time and money filing for and maintaining the patent, i'd let him have it. You would be violating the patent whether you sold any or not. So if I cook a hamburger between 2 waffle irons, George Forman will show up at my door with a team of lawyers?? I'm pretty sure you can design/make/build anything you want without violating any laws, until it's marketed for profit So make the swim baits for yourself, and give them away to friends free with the purchase of a bait bag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitjunkys Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, JRammit said: So if I cook a hamburger between 2 waffle irons, George Forman will show up at my door with a team of lawyers?? I'm pretty sure you can design/make/build anything you want without violating any laws, until it's marketed for profit So make the swim baits for yourself, and give them away to friends free with the purchase of a bait bag that is actually inacurate. profit or not patents exist for reasons. cant see a guy coming after someone making baits to fish tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanmc Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Baitjunkys said: that is actually inacurate. profit or not patents exist for reasons. cant see a guy coming after someone making baits to fish tho. Exactly! Most people seem to think "I'm just making it for myself" or "I'm not selling them" gets them around patent infringement (of course it doesn't) similar to the "if it's 10% different it doesn't violate the patent" myth. I have a friend who owns a lure company that made a bladed swim jig that was awesome. He got a C&D from Zman. His bsg was clearly not a violation of the "hook connected directly to the blade" patent but he decided not to fight it because even if he won, he would never be able to sell enough baits to pay for the court fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 You better have deep,deep pockets (financially) to fight a C&D for a patent infringement. I was involved in a trademark C&D back in 1987. I used a T&P attorney to file all of the paperwork and drawings that are required.. The name and designs were researched by the T&P office in Washington,D.C. They stated an exclusive trademark would be issued to me since the name and logo were original if- and here it comes IF NO ONE OBJECTED. Well an objection was filed and cha -ching went the attorney fees as the discussions began. My name and logo was completely original but they wouldn't budge. My T&P attorney said" We can win this in court" to which I replied " How much will it cost?" 20k said the attorney!!! This is for a simple trademark dispute back in '87. Patent disputes can trump the aforementioned cost 10 x's +. The company filing the dispute was a subsidiary of Johnson Wax. Needless to say I changed the name and logos and sucked up the total of 8 K+ in attorney fees and associated expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 12 hours ago, CustomBaits4You said: I didn't say Ken patented a wedge tail, he patented a "vortex tail" the baitsmith mag was canceled from production because they made a vortex tail. This patent always makes me smile, because the vortex drawing is rotating the wrong way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
