ScreamlineGuy Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Our company has moved forward into manufacturing our cranks, and for our next generation, we were looking at potentially changing our lip material from polycarbonate to either aluminium, or a hybrid of PC and aluminum. Granted, the weighting will shift a bit, but my question is whether the action will change if the actual lip shape remains the same? Also, any opinions, thoughts, or experience pertaining to fishing metal lips vs. plastic (PC /Lexan) would be very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Wow, lots of great questions. I find that metal lips can be much thinner, and this makes a difference in action, I think an improved action with deeper diving and faster responses. Metal lips tend to be much stronger as well. If I have a lure I want to pound the rocks with, metal is awesome. Also, metal makes a different sound when it hits cover. Metal lips are "old school" for sure, but I still dig some of my old old old classics out for a run now and then. The real question is will they sell. People liked the clear lips because they look more real. I doubt the fish care that much, but ......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfflipper Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 you'll have to weigh them to see there is any difference and best advise is to make a few with the different lip material and try them out. If your a bait builder you should always do your R&R on your own and see what best suits your baits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamlineGuy Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Thanks much for the quick reply. I care about the effectiveness of the lure, and the added durability and flash appeals to me. My partners on the other hand, are serious about catching customers. To me, the proof is in the strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfflipper Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 are they for bass or another fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 It will definitely affect the action. It could be better or worse. Aluminum is just over double the density of polycarbonate. The increased weight is a bigger deal because of the distance from the center of pressure. This will tend to decease the action. That said, you can minimize this some, by making the lip thinner. Besides lightening the lip some, a thinner lip tends to have a slightly better action. Weight in the lip can have a beneficial effect on diving ability, but can be detrimental to casting distance. AnglinArcher is right about metal being great over rocks. He is right as well in regards to marketability. Lastly is the effect on apparent lure size. If a Musky lure a larger appearance without increasing weight a lot may be beneficial. If a deep diving bass lure, almost doubling the lure's apparent size may be problematic. craig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamlineGuy Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 We have two sizes for target species - Bass and Musky/Pike. Thanks for the insight everyone, after testing this afternoon the aluminium lips certainly performed well, and my biggest concern is that if we run with that lip design in PC the action may not translate. We'll be adding the appropriate weighting to offset the material weight differences, but if we're dropping $80k on another tool it had better live up to the expectations... I dig the aluminium personally, that added flash scored me a nice bass today I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 80k for tooling. .with that investment job your lips out. unless your building a hundred thousand pcs yearly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 I'm not in business of making baits but it seems that I would have a pretty good local clientele base if this happens. I'm like Woodie, 80k for tooling change is a large overhead, which must equal to a large production output to make it worthwhile. The changing of weight and thickness of the lip will have a change on the action for good or bad. When I started making baits I started with 1/8" lexan, then I went to circuit board. The difference accually made the action better on some and not so much on others. Then I went to 1/16" lexan lately and the change happened again. For me and a look compared to catching fish.......I'll take the catching fish any day! I throw what I think will get me a strike compared to the conditions, example a rock bottom (metal bill). Anyways that's my two bits worth, Dale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Metal bill going to likely be a hard sell to bass anglers (along with the VDL technology). Don't get me wrong bass anglers are quick to purchase about anything especially if a company slaps some initials on it but year after year so many of these lures fail to garner enough sells to keep them around. There is a reason why it isn't mainstream and cost isn't one of them at the price point of baits in today's market as it boils down to if the bait really is good or just another gimmick. You have a few guys seeking out some metal bill cranks but far and few and those usually more about nostalgia. Hot and Tot was popular in some small regions but definitely not bass fishing meccas 20 to 30 years ago and the hellbenders even further back but more about anglers were able to actually fish structure for the first time and lack of other methods to do similar. Unless you get a legit pro using your lure and winning likely not going to be anything most bass anglers are going to gravitate towards. Most guys that are bass anglers and follow tournaments can think of several lure companies with sponsored pros, full color adds in the major magazines, regional and national following that came and went rather quickly so 80k on what many would see as a potential gimmick is a hard one to accept. I figure you either have done the research and can make a valid operational decision or you are on the other end. Best of luck and perhaps your lures will be mainstream in the industry in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamlineGuy Posted April 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) Hey Travis, thank you for the honest input. I certainly wouldn't be pursuing this full time if I was pushing a gimmick. I started pursuing the concept because I couldn't find a solution to a problem. River fishing for walleye with shad raps but unable to adapt to structure / depth changes quick enough by changing lures. Nothing on the market could do it, and after years of R&D and patents I know why. It was a nightmare to find the correct weight shift, ballast, bouncy, line tie points, etc... Lots of hotel swimming pool testing. Anyway, we have a rock solid product and I want to enhance the hell out of it. What's even more appealing is that the action changes in between depth settings as well, and it gives the angler a whole slew of actions to present. Granted, the depth variance is the largest in the industry, but it's not going to hit the bottom of a twenty foot hole. I'll post a few videos soon and you can judge for yourself. I appreciate the critique, and I'm definitely looking to get a few pros to test them out. They perform, and have a ton of thoughtful features aside from the variable depth aspect. Anyway, the website is a work in progress, and any additional input you have is appreciated. I'll be happy to put my money where my mouth is with this lure any day btw. Edited April 6, 2017 by ScreamlineGuy typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 6 hours ago, ScreamlineGuy said: Hey Travis, thank you for the honest input. I certainly wouldn't be pursuing this full time if I was pushing a gimmick. I started pursuing the concept because I couldn't find a solution to a problem. River fishing for walleye with shad raps but unable to adapt to structure / depth changes quick enough by changing lures. Nothing on the market could do it, and after years of R&D and patents I know why. It was a nightmare to find the correct weight shift, ballast, bouncy, line tie points, etc... Lots of hotel swimming pool testing. Anyway, we have a rock solid product and I want to enhance the hell out of it. What's even more appealing is that the action changes in between depth settings as well, and it gives the angler a whole slew of actions to present. Granted, the depth variance is the largest in the industry, but it's not going to hit the bottom of a twenty foot hole. I'll post a few videos soon and you can judge for yourself. I appreciate the critique, and I'm definitely looking to get a few pros to test them out. They perform, and have a ton of thoughtful features aside from the variable depth aspect. Anyway, the website is a work in progress, and any additional input you have is appreciated. I'll be happy to put my money where my mouth is with this lure any day btw. Good luck to you. I hope it is a big success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
