PVC Musky Glide Bait

[DoubleT]

I have researched the forum and found some great info but I'm still curious. I recently purchased a 1 inch thick piece of PVC trim board. I intend to use it to make a 8 inch one piece musky glide bait. I understand that the trim board is less dense than the decking. I would have like to use decking but it has the wood grain on one side and I don't have a planer. Is there any need to be concerned with the screw eyes in the PVC? I have read that some folks install wooden plugs in the places where the  hook hangers and line tie are located. I am hoping to just drill a pilot hole and install the screw eyes. I just don't want to take a chance on them loosening up and damaging the epoxy topcoat or pulling out which I can't imagine happening. Thanks

[fshng2]

Depending on the pvc brand;  the density can be different which affects the holding strength of the screw eyes.

The easiest way to check is to put a screw eye in a scrap piece and pull on it.  You could also hang water jugs from the eye and add water till it fails,

then weigh the jugs.  

 

[woodieb8]

I have experimented with deckboard/plastic. screws hold very well,never an issue.

[DoubleT]

There appears to be a couple different methods to installing the screw eyes. I'm guessing that the same goes for PVC as for wood.

1. Drill the hole almost the same size as the screw eye. Fill the hole with 5 minute epoxy and screw in the eye. I also read where etex was used.

2. Drill a pilot hole. Run the screw all the way in and back it all the way back out. Coat the threads with CA glue and reinstall the screw. Seems like it would be best to put the CA glue in the hole as well. 

3. Drill a over size hole. Fill the hole with 5 minute epoxy and push the screw down into the epoxy.

Is there a right or wrong way? Seems like #2 would work the best but obviously I'm not sure. lol

Thanks

Edited July 17, 2017 by DoubleT

[SW Lures]

BobP I believe likes #3. The reason why is becuse of wedging losen the screw with twisting stress I believe. Woodie is one that you should pay attention to. The reason that I state this is he and his friends are musky people. My little knowledge of hangers are from making my on twisted and testing that I did on them. Trust me about this when I use epoxy on these with ss heavy wire/rod the wood or pvc is going to give up before any thing else. 

Think about this, if you are using thin epoy. The epoxy is going into all crevices in the pours of your material. I'm not sure about wedging but if it doesnt happen often, you ain't got a problem. I got hung up not long ago and didnt want to lose the bait and did everything that I could in fast water. I stressed the heck out of the connect, inculding pulling a 20' boat all over the place. It will hold!

[DoubleT]

2 hours ago, woodieb8 said:

I have experimented with deckboard/plastic. screws hold very well,never an issue.

 

9 minutes ago, DaleSW said:

Woodie is one that you should pay attention to.

 

Woodie,

If you don't mind. What is your preferred method when installing screw eyes into PVC or wood to insure they don't move?

12 minutes ago, DaleSW said:

BobP I believe likes #3

 

Hopefully Bob will chime in as well.

Thanks

[mark poulson]

At the risk of being misinterpreted, I like to do #2.

[DoubleT]

26 minutes ago, mark poulson said:

At the risk of being misinterpreted, I like to do #2.

 

I found on Woodcraft that they offer thin, medium and thick CA glue. I think I will give the medium a try. Hopefully it will allow me to get the screw eye in and positioned prior to setting up.

[mark poulson]

1 hour ago, DoubleT said:

 

I found on Woodcraft that they offer thin, medium and thick CA glue. I think I will give the medium a try. Hopefully it will allow me to get the screw eye in and positioned prior to setting up.

 I use ZAP gap filling super glue, and their accelerant.

[woodieb8]

using an 0.92 s/steel screw 1/1/2 inches with some epoxy I wont worry. if your worried insert screws that way and then use your finish clear over top of it all. ,overbuilt yes but no worries.

[DoubleT]

9 hours ago, mark poulson said:

 I use ZAP gap filling super glue, and their accelerant.

 

Do you coat the screw with the glue, spray glue with the accelerant, then run it in the bait?  If the glue sets up in 30 seconds why is the accelerant needed.  Just curious.

[mark poulson]

1 hour ago, DoubleT said:

 

Do you coat the screw with the glue, spray glue with the accelerant, then run it in the bait?  If the glue sets up in 30 seconds why is the accelerant needed.  Just curious.

I run the screw in and back out again,  put a drop of glue into the hole,  start the screw, coat the rest of the screw with a thin coat of glue,  and run it in all the way.  As the screw goes in, it squeezes out glue that forms a mound around the screw eye when it's all the way in.  Once the screw is installed, and the eye is in the position I want it to be, I put a drop of accelerant on the eye to set the glue around it and hold it in that position. If I put it on the screw before I tried to install it, it would set up and I could never get the screw in.  That's why I use the gap filling glue, because it gives me enough time to install the screw and adjust it before it sets up.

I have never had a screw come out, or unscrew.  When I used to use 5 min. epoxy, I had a screw back out, because the epoxy was only water resistant, and the water softened it over time. But the ZAP glue is totally waterproof, and strong.

For my crankbaits I use .072 sst screw eyes.  Mostly I use the 7/8" length, but I'll use the 1 3/4" if the tail section tapers, like with a popper.

I use the .092 eyes for swimbaits and big gliders.

I even use the runny version of the ZAP glue to seal my PVC before I prime it, to keep any bubbles that might be generated from heat drying my paint from forming and bubbling my paint.  I apply it with my bare finger, and then use acetone on a corner of a towel to clean my finger when I'm done.  It takes a little soaking and elbow grease, but it comes off, and I haven't found another way to apply it that doesn't stick to the glue.  I move my finger fast, and apply the glue in small sections, so I can avoid drips.

I hope this answers your question.

[DoubleT]

Mark

Great info. Thank you sir

[BobP]

Actually, I use method #1.  Epoxy is stronger than trim board or wood so I really don't think any of the methods won't work.  I prefer using epoxy over CA because I'm doubtful about the impact resistance of CA.  Since 5 minute epoxy is not waterproof and is weaker than 30 minute, I use either slow cure Devcon or Rod Bond slow cure paste epoxy;  the latter most often because I usually build baits in small batches and the paste has a very long work time.  I poke epoxy in the hole and also butter the line tie with it before inserting it.  The hole is slightly oversize but it doesn't matter as long as you get enough in there to make a good bond (in fact epoxy does require a minimum  thickness for the best bond, so I don't want the hole too tight.).  

[fatfingers]

This may have been mentioned...

You can also drill a hole big enough for a 1/4 or 3/8 inch oak dowel rod, glue the dowel rod in, cut it flush and then glue the screw eye into the dowel.

Edited July 19, 2017 by fatfingers

[SW Lures]

Sorry, I've been on a fishing trip. I use a drill hole just large enough (5/32) to except ,30 TIG SS welding rod with a barrel twist. I rough up the wire some, just for extra. I trim the wire to the hole depth. I put a little epoxy in the hole and butter the wire, As I insert the hanger I twist it into the hole allowing the epoxy to run freely in the cavity. I clean up the over run of epoxy at the eye, to level.

I've caught northern pike at best and other species, not a musky. No problems for me with these. I've done extreme test just to prove it to myself.........I'm a believer now! I don't think pvc is a strength problem as most have stated.

Dale

[mark poulson]

On 7/18/2017 at 7:33 AM, DoubleT said:

Mark

Great info. Thank you sir

One last thing.

I use AZEK PVC, either the decking or the trim board.

For musky baits I would recommend the decking.  It is as buoyant as poplar, but it is stronger than the trim board, which I use for cranks, poppers, and other one piece baits.  Both hold screw eyes, twist wires, belly weights, and swivels used as hook hangers just fine.

Edited July 22, 2017 by mark poulson

[jonister]

    I once was testing out the casting ability of a pvc jerk bait I had made, in my back yard..  long story short I hit a fence pretty hard and cracked it in half. . I mean that freaking bait was probably 3/4" thick and 4" long but it just broke in half. I epoxied small dowel rods and zap-a-gapped the crap out of that thing. A little sanding, paint, and Solarez later and it seems to hold up just fine. That was the trim board I believe. It seems to hold the screw eyes just fine. I think once you get a good strong clear coat over it, it should be just fine. 

[mark poulson]

10 hours ago, jonister said:

    I once was testing out the casting ability of a pvc jerk bait I had made, in my back yard..  long story short I hit a fence pretty hard and cracked it in half. . I mean that freaking bait was probably 3/4" thick and 4" long but it just broke in half. I epoxied small dowel rods and zap-a-gapped the crap out of that thing. A little sanding, paint, and Solarez later and it seems to hold up just fine. That was the trim board I believe. It seems to hold the screw eyes just fine. I think once you get a good strong clear coat over it, it should be just fine. 

 

The trim board is definitely not as strong as the decking, which is a structural material designed to support loads.

I've made thinner baits out of the trim board that held up to a 7 lb bass, but I don't use the trim  for thin baits anymore if I can get away with decking.

Here's that bait:  

 

[DoubleT]

The problem that I am having with PVC is finding it thick enough for my lure. I need it to be 1 inch thick and smooth on both sides. I found some trim board but its not as durable or as dense as the decking. The decking appears to be 1 inch thick but it has the wood grain on one side. I made one out of the trim board but haven't tried it yet.

[mark poulson]

19 hours ago, jonister said:

    I once was testing out the casting ability of a pvc jerk bait I had made, in my back yard..  long story short I hit a fence pretty hard and cracked it in half. . I mean that freaking bait was probably 3/4" thick and 4" long but it just broke in half. I epoxied small dowel rods and zap-a-gapped the crap out of that thing. A little sanding, paint, and Solarez later and it seems to hold up just fine. That was the trim board I believe. It seems to hold the screw eyes just fine. I think once you get a good strong clear coat over it, it should be just fine. 

 

The trim board is definitely not as strong as the decking, which is a structural material designed to support loads.

I've made thinner baits out of the trim board that held up to a 7 lb bass, but I don't use the trim  for thin baits anymore if I can get away with decking.

Here's that bait:  

If I want a thicker blank, I glue two pieces together with PVC pipe glue and primer.   Just be sure to put the smooth faces toward each other, and sand the mating faces first, to help the glue  bond them properly.  That way  the wood grain is on the outside, and it's removed when I shape the lure.

Brush on super glue works, too.  

Either method, apply the glue, and then clamp until the glue sets.

[DoubleT]

1 hour ago, mark poulson said:

If I want a thicker blank, I glue two pieces together with PVC pipe glue and primer.   Just be sure to put the smooth faces toward each other, and sand the mating faces first, to help the glue  bond them properly.  That way  the wood grain is on the outside, and it's removed when I shape the lure.

Brush on super glue works, too.  

Either method, apply the glue, and then clamp until the glue sets.

I had thought about gluing two pieces together as you mentioned then I realized that the screw eyes for the line tie and hook hangers would be placed in the seam between the two layers. Since it is a musky plug i got a little skeptical. I suppose you could plane one side more than the other to get the seam off center. What are you thoughts on that Mark? That's a great looking bait by the way. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by DoubleT

[mark poulson]

I turned the laminate so the seam was in the middle, horizontal not vertical, and the screw eyes weren't in it.  I made sure that the bait profile kept the seam out of the line of both  the line tie and the rear treble.

I am actually able to use cut offs and scrap to make lure blocks that are thicker only in the places they need to be.

Edited July 27, 2017 by mark poulson

[BobP]

If you use pvc primer and glue, I can't imagine that it wouldn't be stronger than the porous pvc board around it.  The stuff molecularly welds pvc.  I cut a transverse section out of a plastic lure and rejoined the parts with it and it worked fine.  The only problem is if the primer is doped with purple dye, which is hard to hide during finishing.  Some states require the dye, some don't.

[DoubleT]

Thanks for the info. Im going to laminate two pieces and give it a go.