Fin's for Replica

[SW Lures]

I haven't been a op for awhile.  My question is, I have been using soft plastics on some fish replicas for contest. That maybe a little much compared to how other maker's do it. Soft plastics needs paints that will adhere to it. I have even used a milk jugs at times and it doesn't do well but it's ok. I've heard of using bill/lip materials.

I was looking at a bait the other night and was amazed at the detail that was in the fins. It was a warmouth bream bait, and very nice work. I didn't ask the designer because I thought be a improper move in front of everyone. I was wondering if the fins were shaped in some way and details was added to give then depth. Do you have any ideas on what is used and how?

You may wonder why I call these types of baits, replica. Its because most baits don't have fins. IMO the fins could get in the way of a strike. Heck some are so big that these may be just for show.

Thanks,

Dale

[BobP]

Not my bailiwick but isn't it possible to mold silicone?  Seems it would be more durable than soft bait plastic and a mold would allow you to include fin rays, etc.

[Travis]

Yes you can mold silicone and various other products.  Smooth on has a lot of different products that will do the trick.   I would carve a master from polycarbonate.  

[SW Lures]

Thanks,

Will the silicone accept water base paints? If not, what type of paint would I need? This would only be used occasionally. I was just impressed with the bone coming up through the fin and how realistic it looked.

Dale

[jonister]

I've recently been playing around with fins. Specifically on a little trout desk piece I'm making.  I cut a fin out of lexan, drill and shape a socket out for it, the set it with plumbers epoxy. The stuff comes in a stick and you knead it. Sets up hard, fast. Basically it is a plastic putty. I think any would work. Has a hard azek feel, and you can sculpt it onto fins and then carve and sand it. I can post a picture of what I mean after work.  I'm sure it would hold up to fishing as well as just a replica. The stuff gets rock hard, while retaining slight rigidity and carveability. 

[MonteSS]

The bait you are speaking of indeed is spectacular. The blank he used had the detail built in. They are no longer available.

You could carve just the fin out of wood and make an open pour silicone mold. Then pour in urethane, resin or whatever and stick it on your blanks.

[mark poulson]

JR Hopkins uses paint brush bristles for his fins.  Look up some of his stuff in the Hard Baits Gallery.

[SW Lures]

Thanks Mark, but this was a solid material. I just got curious as heck how it was done. If I put fins on a plug it will be for show anyways or maybe a low profile dorsal fin. I believe silicone may do it, but needs to be a natural thickness for me. 

I was thinking about something about wax paper sandwich over some thin, clear, soft stick type bone look. then a light thinned out painting over this. Not sure if this would work. Wax paper may not work. If I can get silicon thin enough that would be better I think? Never worked with it yet.

Thanks again Mark,

Dale

[SW Lures]

Another thing I believe that person is a member here. I'm trying to lure him out. Pun intended! I don't think that this may happen tho.

Dale

[mark poulson]

I've used the clear plastic tops from tubs of salsa for fins and tails.  They are strong, but flexible.

[SW Lures]

Thanks Mark, yeah the milk jug did ok but I just couldn't get the look I wanted. It may have been more me then anything else. I am still willing to have more suggestions.

The site didn't show Joinster comment, sorry I didn't have chance to comment when you sent it. Yes please post some pics, if you don't mind. I'm very interested.

MonteSS, same with you as Jonister, I didn't see it. Yes it is very nice work. Yeah I could carve them out when I make a copy of a fish. Which would be on point if I would do it right. I was going for cheating a tad by having some already to go. When someone ask for this type all I would have do is get the body and match up the fins. 

Thanks all,

Dale

[jonister]

This is all I have right now. Currently it's a little more refined with some detail. Have a adipose fin waiting to be sanded as well. This stuff is amazing. It's like JB weld and sculpey combined. 

[SW Lures]

Thank you Jonister. I've got and idea with this. Make a few molds, then put this into the mold and press it. Remove all excessive push out. Then let dry and clean up. Like I have stated this will be just for show.

Dale 

[Anglinarcher]

Sorry I was not on site for a couple of days.  But, ...... here is my two cents.

I understand the "fish replica" comment.  A lot of fins on lures are indeed awesome, but can and do deflect some strikes.  I had that happen a lot on a test lure I was making (saw it happen in clear water)  but the catch rate went up once I dropped off the tail fin.  So, sometimes pretty is not as desirable as functional. 

You can make fins from Silicone, and I have done it.  If you want, PM me and I will post a pic but I don't have pictures on the computer so I would need to dig them up from my odds and ends box and take the pictures.  Physically the detail is as much as you want to put into the master, but even mother nature doesn't seem to compare.  LOL  But, color is an issue.

Silicone only sticks to silicone.  Any paint applied once it is cured is not going to stick.  Additionally, the color of most RTV silicones, at least the Tin Cure forms, is Opaque and often a shade of Pink. 

What I have done is to make a silicone mold of a fin I wanted.  I then used UMR (ultimate mold release) on the mold and molded the new fin using Alumilite HS3.  The pink fin had the perfect physical shape, fin rays, flex, everything one would want, except it was pink.  My next version used Alumilite Alumidust to dust the mold the colors I wanted, then  I added some white pigment to alter the pink, and the results were much much better.  Still, figure on 24 hours of cure time for the pour.

Still, I have not found a way to get the same level of detail I wanted in regards to color, but I have not given up, just laid it aside for now.

You could make a mold with something like Vac Master and then you would not need the UMR.  You could use a different material, like Flex 30 "extremely tough flexible rubber used for casting flexible parts and making flexible urethane molds. 30A hardness (similar to a soft rubber gasket). "  Still, I am not convinced the urethane in flex 30 would take paints, but it is clear and takes dies or pigments like plastisol very well.

I have not tried the Flex 30 for fins, but I have used the HS3 as stated.  The HS3 has the perfect stiffness, strength, flexibility, but is hard to color.  But, I bet someone will come up with something I have not thought of yet.

 

 

[Anglinarcher]

Just a follow up.  I have now tried some very old Flex 30 and it looks great, and is almost as soft as HS3.  As a flexible urethane, it might have some other colorant options.

I have also talked to my sources and there are new silicone dyes that will be coming out, probably last this year.   Note that I have used the Alumilite dyes to color the HS3 when I mixed it up and it worked just fine.  I will be excited to see the new dyes when they are out.

[SW Lures]

I just notice your post, the site didn't show someone posting on this thread. I'm going to give this a try when I get a chance. Thanks for the post. So the pigmentation has to be put into the mix, that could make it complex. Soft plastics can be painted and the sealed. I have been asked to enter into a local/national art contest. I believe I may carve the fins in for this one time. I have a new brush on the way for fine painting and to see how good this product is too.

I'll read up on silicone for future  needs. By the way I believe that bait that I decribed earlier was done by carving like Monte SS stated.

Thanks.

[Travis]

If these are going to be limited pieces then carving isn't too bad of an option.   As mentioned just look at as fish carving and good to go.  I know that some companies have contacted individuals to carve master replicas for their realistic swimbaits.   The issue with carving and realism on smaller baits is the the true thickness of a fin and trying to replicate that in a carving medium.

Larger fish much easier as the rays are thicker.  I am a hack when it comes to fish carving and never have actually finished a piece as I loose interest and they sit for a long time.   I was able to get the fins thin enough (too thin) that I had use the super glue/baking soda technique to fix many areas as they broke through.  A light can be shined from behind and there is translucence in many areas.  Any of the "wet" looking areas on the fins have superglue/baking soda mixed in, it works as an instant hard set resin.  Drop of superglue then spring with the baking soda and give it a few seconds and good to carve or sand.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Travis

[mark poulson]

27 minutes ago, Travis said:

If these are going to be limited pieces then carving isn't too bad of an option.   As mentioned just look at as fish carving and good to go.  I know that some companies have contacted individuals to carve master replicas for their realistic swimbaits.   The issue with carving and realism on smaller baits is the the true thickness of a fin and trying to replicate that in a carving medium.

Larger fish much easier as the rays are thicker.  I am a hack when it comes to fish carving and never have actually finished a piece as I loose interest and they sit for a long time.   I was able to get the fins thin enough (too thin) that I had use the super glue/baking soda technique to fix many areas as they were too thin (broke through).  A light can be shined from behind and there is translucence in many areas.  Any of the "wet" looking areas on the fins have superglue/baking soda mixed in, it works as an instant hard set resin.  Drop of superglue then spring with the baking soda and give it a few seconds and good to carve or sand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing work!

[SW Lures]

No hack, that's a great job. Travis you are getting me more intersted in replicas. I could go back to just painting plastic blanks. I really like doing things like that. I would think there are some people out there that are willing to like them too, if you get my drift. I'm going back and zoom in again. Lmao

Thanks