primer sealer?

[ddl]

ok guys so my paint for red western cedar will be createx epoxy will be resinart.but for the rest im kind of lost do i really need both of these products ? if it's the case what brand would you suggest me to match water based paint like createx ?i've read good thing about kilz ?

thanks in advance at least after that i think i'll be ready to start lol

[Musky Glenn]

ddl, I always hated the KISS deal, keep it simple stupid, but it sure does simplify things. I would suggest, until you get the bugs worked out of your system, to only use two products. Createx paint in any color you might choose or need. I would use the epoxy you are having good luck with. I would put a coat of epoxy on the bare wood, then do your paint scheme and clear coat with the same epoxy again or maybe twice depending on how one coat looks. That will get a very good paint job and should not create any problems with chemical reactions between products. Those work good together. Good luck.

[ddl]

did you sand epoxy before painting ? the major problem i have encounter  at guys baits  is mostly  paint that don't stick well to the bait and them big flake of paint appears

[BobP]

I lightly sand epoxy when I use it as a wood sealer.  I don't understand how epoxy could "flake off" of a lure.  If the topcoat is damaged, the underlying paint will absorb water and push the epoxy topcoat off the lure in large sheets, not flakes.  The only ways I know to avoid this is to not damage the epoxy topcoat down to the paint or to use a solvent based lacquer paint instead of water based.  That doesn't really have anything to do with paint adhesion, per se.

[ddl]

the problem here is these lures will be used strictly for fish whit giant teeth.so top coat will be destroyed really quick by big 7/0 treble hook or musky jaws .paint chip ,at least at a couple of lures that i use,top coat chip including paint but first layer of ? stay there

thanks

[woodieb8]

if your using etex as a seal coat,any solvent primer will bite into etexwhich is alkyd base. you can use any paint afterward water,enamel, lacquer. make sure the colors are dry then topcoat with etex again for mr toothy...this is for wood baits, on plastics its different.

[BobP]

Many musky bait makers prefer Etex, aka Envirotex Lite, because they feel it is more impact and cold resistant than "glue" type epoxies like Devcon Two Ton.  And they lay it on really thick as a topcoat.  Check out Fatfingers' member submitted tutorial titled "Achieving a Perfect Finish".  I don't know what type of epoxy resinart is, but it sounds like a decoupage type epoxy similar to Etex?

[ddl]

from the website it's the best one for what i need, have a look, but it's pricey .it's a 2 part make almost no bubble and shine a lot

Edited September 9, 2017 by ddl
error

[ddl]

20 hours ago, woodieb8 said:

if your using etex as a seal coat,any solvent primer will bite into etexwhich is alkyd base. you can use any paint afterward water,enamel, lacquer. make sure the colors are dry then topcoat with etex again for mr toothy...this is for wood baits, on plastics its different.

what kind of primer is best whit createx paint ?so if i use white from createx it will not stick well whit epoxy? what's the point of sanding sealer exactly ?so if i use sanding sealer i will not need epoxy  as a sealer right?

[mark poulson]

Any rattle can primer van be used under Createx.  I use Rustoleum X2 white primer, but there are lots of different ones out there.

Sanding sealer is meant to be used on wood, to lock the grain so it can be sanded smoother before painting.

With Resin, PVC, and plastic baits, you don't need a sanding sealer.

A sanding sealer needs to be soft enough to sand easily, or you'll be sanding forever.  Glue-type epoxy is not soft, and is a poor choice.

Epoxy will work as a sealer, but you have to sand it's surface with fine sandpaper after it's set so you paint will have something to grab onto, a mechanical bond.  Otherwise, the surface of the epoxy is too smooth .  The paint gets down into the sanding scratches and grabs.  An etching primer will help your paint even stick better.     

With resin and PVC you still have to prime your baits.

The purpose of a primer is to give your bait a undercoating of porous paint that will give your paint scheme something to hold onto.

If you're painting plastic baits, dip them quickly in clean acetone, let them hang a minute to drip dry, and then you can spray Createx directly onto the plastic.  The dip in the acetone removes a thin layer of the plastic's surface, exposing a completely fresh, clean plastic surface that your Createx will bond to.  Just use thin coats, heat set each coat with a hair dryer, and be sure to use a good top coat to protect the paint job.

I hope this is clear, and helps.

[ddl]

tks everybody for your patience .now i think i know all i need to do

[smallmouthaholic]

Everyone has their own idea concerning sealing a wooden plug. Here's mine based upon experience

 

1- drill all hardware mounting holes and eyes sockets

2- use .024 s.s. wire and using pliers ,insert into the rear of the plug making a hanging loop on one end

3- Completely submerge into a container of Marine spar varnish thinned w/ paint thinner

4-Keep submerged until all bubbles-small and foam like stop rising(2-4 minutes)

5-Hang to dry for 1-5 days depending upon air temperature

6- Apply one coat of KILZ primer sealer

Now you're ready to paint and finish w/ your favorite clear coat

[ddl]

i think i'll try .62 ss wire ,im sure we don't target same fish size lol

doe's the kilz is white,doe's a primer is always white?

now you see from where i start,right from the very beginning

[mark poulson]

1 hour ago, ddl said:

i think i'll try .62 ss wire ,im sure we don't target same fish size lol

doe's the kilz is white,doe's a primer is always white?

now you see from where i start,right from the very beginning

 

There are primers that are other colors.  As a rule, white is the easiest to use, because most bait fish paint schemes start with a white/light belly, and lighter colors are easier to cover.

[smallmouthaholic]

1 hour ago, ddl said:

i think i'll try .62 ss wire ,im sure we don't target same fish size lol

 

 

I use.024 s.s. wire  since it makes a very small hole into the rear of the plug and is easy to insert using pliers. White primers are best for a base coat since pearl,red  and chartreuse are often  use for a top coat and show up best against a white primer.

[ddl]

i know, .24 is big enough for bass but not for musky. was just kidding

[SW Lures]

I use .30 TIG SS welding rods. Not bad to shape, sooo I just stayed with it. It's tough enough for salt water but ok to use in small baits (4" +/-). I use smaller SS hangers bought from a vender.

Something I learnt from Mark is to predrill all holes and eyes sockets before shaping a blank. You may have to touch up the holes but you will not have a blow out on a thin lure. This is done when you know all the locations and sizes, Smallmouthaholic has touched on this.

As far as what color for a primer coat depends on where I'm going with the paint scheme. 

[ddl]

yeah that's not the first time i saw guys using  tig ss rod,i'll use this in a near future for sure,price is supposed to be low vs the ''real'' wire for lure making

[ddl]

i would like to know when gray is better than white primer?

[SW Lures]

It will give the scheme a different shade. I paint with thinned down paint a lot or inks. If I'm not trying to go opaque then gray would give a little darker look than white. If I'm doing a silver or "chrome" I may use a black. I paint in light layers and build off the last, OR not.....because I may like that shade I have achieved. I do a lot of forage fish.....alewife, shad, etc so I use black or gray as base color. Heck I have been working with gold and copper foil lately with a light primer coat. The gold that I have been spraying, I use thinned purple and aqua blue on the shoulders and back with a touch of opal glitter. Why thinned, it is to fade into the lower color and for a certain color. There is so many different combinations. Thats why some of these people have loads of paint colors. Your imagination is your friend.

Hope this helps

[ddl]

of course it help,do you use just water to thin your paint?

tks

[smallmouthaholic]

On 9/11/2017 at 1:25 PM, ddl said:

i know, .24 is big enough for bass but not for musky. was just kidding

You miss my point. .024 is used since it makes a very small hole in the wood. It's for hanging not internal rigging

[ddl]

ok i see

[gliders]

Ddl, if you start with white base/primer , you can then paint over with any colour to achieve the shade you want. If you start with darker base/primer , you have limited your shade options severely ,straight away. You can achieve any shade/colour over white , but not grey. You can use transparents layered on white to achieve bright colours, and add transparent black for darker shade. If you use grey primer with transparents your colours will be very dark. You can use opaque colours on grey but why handicap yourself ?  Regardless of whether your using opaques or transparents, you can't go wrong with bright white base. Metallics tend to look better over opaque black, but again you can paint a black back on a white lure then spray metallic over that part if for instance you wanted a silver back on lure........glider

[SW Lures]

No DDL, I use reducers recommended by the paint manufacture.

If you drill any hole in your wood blanks that is a point that has the greatest chance of the break down of your wood, paint. These hangers are also the point of the most stress that will move and cause issue. In my opinion treat these areas as being the most important, I make sure the holes are filled out above the wood with epoxy. Then I seal the wood,

As Glider stated gray is not better then white, just like black is not better than grey or white is better than black. Think of the base coates as a tool to achieve a overall job. That is the point that I was trying to make. Its what I want the final finish to look like. I'll use any color to get what I'm after.

JMO

Edited September 13, 2017 by SW Lures
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