Clear Coat for lacquer painted baits

[Sudd]

Has anyone tried or used the minwax brushing lacquer (which i would be dipping them in it) for lacquer pained baits? I was using the minwax polyurethane gloss, but it seems to be leaving a slight amber tint especially to the lighter colors like white.

[mark poulson]

Any solvent based top coating I've ever used has yellowed over time.  That 's the reason floor companies use water based finishes on maple floors, so they stay white.

[Musky Glenn]

I didn't think the brushing lacquers were water proof. I could be wrong. Just going by the water rings that develope under a cold drink .

[mark poulson]

I forgot about the newer acrylic clears.  The rattlecan Rustoleum X2 Gloss Clear doesn't yellow.

I don't know if the solvent in them will affect lacquer.

[fishon-son]

the  auto clear from rust oleum works great  I don't have or never had air bubbles like kbs    I keep it in the can it came in.. at walmarts in the auto area   non yellowing also    cheap to

[woodieb8]

clear lacquer works over dried lacquer paints years back we dipped bodies..

[Sudd]

51 minutes ago, woodieb8 said:

clear lacquer works over dried lacquer paints years back we dipped bodies..

So you get good shine and protection with it? I haven't tried it just yet but I've already got it to try.

[woodieb8]

shine is fine. if you dip second coat let bait dry overnite first.

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by woodieb8

[Sudd]

41 minutes ago, woodieb8 said:

shine is fine. if you dip second coat let bait dry overnite first.

 

You saying let it dry overnight after 2nd coat or dip 2nd coat then dry overnight?

[woodieb8]

first coat dry at least 1 hour. clear cellulose/laquer will eat/bond to paint. the 2nd coat I would wait till next day to avoid,running of clear or having the clear eat into the paint itself and cause an issue.

[Sudd]

1 minute ago, woodieb8 said:

first coat dry at least 1 hour. clear cellulose/laquer will eat/bond to paint. the 2nd coat I would wait till next day to avoid,running of clear or having the clear eat into the paint itself and cause an issue.

Ok you are talking about lacquer paint as well correct? Cause I use lacquer paint and going to try the minwax lacquer clear gloss.

[woodieb8]

yes lacqyuer paints. if you use enamel paint you will have a mess. .remember this. you can put enamel paint over lacquer,,,but never lacquer over enamels.

 

[Sudd]

Wow I tried brushing lacquer today as a clear coat and my paint started coming off!! Can't use that stuff! Looks like I may just start using d2t and put it on with a brush and let hang dry. This is business production so I have to use something good but not real expensive.

And this was over lacquer paint which makes NO sense!

[Sudd]

On 10/26/2017 at 9:16 PM, Sudd said:

Wow I tried brushing lacquer today as a clear coat and my paint started coming off!! Can't use that stuff! Looks like I may just start using d2t and put it on with a brush and let hang dry. This is business production so I have to use something good but not real expensive.

And this was over lacquer paint which makes NO sense!

Anyone know why this would have happened? Just thought I would see if anyone would know. It didn't make sense to me, and I haven't used it since. I've got a whole can just sitting there.

[mark poulson]

I am a carpenter, not a paint chemist, but this is what I've learned from years of working on jobs where lacquer paints were used.

Lacquer thinner is a hot solvent, very volatile and reactive.  It has a whole host of ingredients that are pretty strong, depending on the brand of thinner you buy.  Some form of  it is the solvent in lacquer paints.

Lacquer paint is easily dissolved by the next coat of lacquer paint, because of the lacquer thinner solvent in the  paint.  That's what makes those paints blend together so well, because they are actually melting together a little with each additional coat.

Lacquer paint flashes off it's solvent fast.   That's why its sprayed almost all the time, so multiple thin coats can be applied quickly.

That's also why the second coat of lacquer paint, if sprayed on, doesn't mess up the first coat, because the solvent leaves before it can melt the coat beneath it enough to ruin it.

If you want to use a lacquer clear coat, you will have to spray it.  Brushing just remelts the paint under it.

If you don't want to spray your top coat, I'd look for something like an acrylic (non-lacquer based) clear that you can dip and hang.  

Paint up some test pieces, instead of actual painted baits, to test your different  top coat options on, until you find one that works without ruining the paint job.

You can contact the paint manuf. to see what they recommend.

You can also go into a real paint store, like Dunne Edwards, and ask the people there.

Or someone here on TU, who actually has experience with spraying lacquer, can chime in and help you.

 

[Sudd]

16 minutes ago, mark poulson said:

I am a carpenter, not a paint chemist, but this is what I've learned from years of working on jobs where lacquer paints were used.

Lacquer thinner is a hot solvent, very volatile and reactive.  It has a whole host of ingredients that are pretty strong, depending on the brand of thinner you buy.  Some form of  it is the solvent in lacquer paints.

Lacquer paint is easily dissolved by the next coat of lacquer paint, because of the lacquer thinner solvent in the  paint.  That's what makes those paints blend together so well, because they are actually melting together a little with each additional coat.

Lacquer paint flashes off it's solvent fast.   That's why its sprayed almost all the time, so multiple thin coats can be applied quickly.

That's also why the second coat of lacquer paint, if sprayed on, doesn't mess up the first coat, because the solvent leaves before it can melt the coat beneath it enough to ruin it.

If you want to use a lacquer clear coat, you will have to spray it.  Brushing just remelts the paint under it.

If you don't want to spray your top coat, I'd look for something like an acrylic (non-lacquer based) clear that you can dip and hang.  

Paint up some test pieces, instead of actual painted baits, to test your different  top coat options on, until you find one that works without ruining the paint job.

You can contact the paint manuf. to see what they recommend.

You can also go into a real paint store, like Dunne Edwards, and ask the people there.

Or someone here on TU, who actually has experience with spraying lacquer, can chime in and help you.

 

Thanks, yeah 99% of the time I have been using the minwax polycrylic. But it's pretty soft and doesn't give the high gloss shine. I thought about airbrushing that brushing lacquer clear, but wasn't sure if I could. Would it need to be thinned or just put it in paint cup and spray?

[woodieb8]

one thing,with lacquers. its a brittle coating. if theres expansion/contraction.in time crazing will happen..very notable in wooden lures. that's why so many changed up to epoxy coatings.sometimes winning the race is not being the fastest...

[Hughesy]

Use a moisture cure urethane and dip don't brush.

[Sudd]

2 hours ago, Hughesy said:

Use a moisture cure urethane and dip don't brush.

Like what? Give me some ideas

[Hughesy]

Dick Nite S81 or KBS Diamond clear.

[Sudd]

8 minutes ago, Hughesy said:

Dick Nite S81 or KBS Diamond clear.

So both these can be used on top of lacquer paint

[Hughesy]

yes but dip don't brush

[BobP]

Dick Nite S81 is used by Dick Nite in his spoon production business to topcoat lures painted with his lacquer colors.  He dips.  The problem with S81 is it will begin to moisture cure in its storage container pretty soon after dipping introduces moisture into the can.  As a hobby builder,  I’ve never been able to keep a can liquid for more than 6 months when dipping.  Maybe you could depending on your production volume.  KBS is also a MCU.  TUers report that it doesn’t cure in storage as fast as Dick Nite and there is also a solvent you can add to a can if it does.  Use the search function to explore application techniques and storage of both these MCUs.  There have been a ton of posts on both.  Personallly, if I were producing baits in quantity I would choose dipping in MCU as the fastest and easiest way to give customers a durable and attractive product.

[Sudd]

25 minutes ago, BobP said:

Dick Nite S81 is used by Dick Nite in his spoon production business to topcoat lures painted with his lacquer colors.  He dips.  The problem with S81 is it will begin to moisture cure in its storage container pretty soon after dipping introduces moisture into the can.  As a hobby builder,  I’ve never been able to keep a can liquid for more than 6 months when dipping.  Maybe you could depending on your production volume.  KBS is also a MCU.  TUers report that it doesn’t cure in storage as fast as Dick Nite and there is also a solvent you can add to a can if it does.  Use the search function to explore application techniques and storage of both these MCUs.  There have been a ton of posts on both.  Personallly, if I were producing baits in quantity I would choose dipping in MCU as the fastest and easiest way to give customers a durable and attractive product.

So Bob you think the KBS would be a better choice? This is something I'm having to experiment with. And it gets expensive. I want one that is durable and glossy. I can't brush epoxies cause of the amount of baits I have to make at times. I just want to find one I can start using and keep using.

[BobP]

I’m just going by the posts I’ve read about KBS.  I have only used Dick Nite.  Again, I encourage you to search the forum and explore the threads on KBS and Dick Nite.  Both of them are high gloss topcoats.