Sticky / tacky baits

[Reel Screamer]

I'm new to the group, and new to injecting baits, and I need some help. Briefly, I seemed to have mastered making home made 2 piece Plaster of Paris molds, in order to reproducing baits no longer sold, and also reproducing baits I had "Frankinstein" together.  Now, I have been melting down old baits, using this plastic with nothing added to it, and injecting it into my molds. The baits are coming out sticky or tacky, and much softer texture than the baits I melted down. My molds have been surface sealed with a sealer. I also slightly brush coat the mold with worm oil before injecting, this helps in taking out the bait or it sticks in the mold.  Wondering if I'm over heating the plastic, or not heating it enough? Perhaps it's because I use a thin coat of worm oil before injecting? I can't figure this out, can someone help? Thank you.

[mark poulson]

In my limited experience, worm oil acts like a softener, so that may be your problem.  Try using spray PAM instead, and see if that helps.

[Reel Screamer]

35 minutes ago, mark poulson said:

In my limited experience, worm oil acts like a softener, so that may be your problem.  Try using spray PAM instead, and see if that helps.

I guess that won't hurt. ? Some one also mentioned Mineral oil.?? Thank you for your reply

[mark poulson]

3 hours ago, Reel Screamer said:

I guess that won't hurt. ? Some one also mentioned Mineral oil.?? Thank you for your reply

I  use PAM because it is a spray,  so I can get a more even coating.  Plus it's faster to apply.

[Basseducer]

I find that when I demold while the bait is still very hot it tends to be sticky. But after a day or two the stickiness becomes less. Then I package with oil based scent and the stickiness is completely gone. You might also make sure you are mixing your plastic very well before using.

[Anglinarcher]

You probably need to use a different surface sealer.  It should not be sticking to plastisol.

But, yes, use a thin coat of cooking spray.  Mineral oil should work, but if it is too thick you are back to the same problem.  You don't want to contaminate the plastisol when it is poured.

Also, you are taking old baits and remelting them.  If you have mixed some baits that use something other then plastisol, and there are some other materials out there now, then it could create the same issue.

[Basseducer]

Mineral oil makes them hard as a rock.

[Reel Screamer]

2 hours ago, Basseducer said:

I find that when I demold while the bait is still very hot it tends to be sticky. But after a day or two the stickiness becomes less. Then I package with oil based scent and the stickiness is completely gone. You might also make sure you are mixing your plastic very well before using.

Thank you, and yes I have been stirring & mixing. I do agree that after a few days it becomes less sticky, but I'm hoping it should be firm right out of the mold. I am also tonight trying to place the baits in a tray of cool water to see if that helps. ?

[Reel Screamer]

2 hours ago, Anglinarcher said:

You probably need to use a different surface sealer.  It should not be sticking to plastisol.

But, yes, use a thin coat of cooking spray.  Mineral oil should work, but if it is too thick you are back to the same problem.  You don't want to contaminate the plastisol when it is poured.

Also, you are taking old baits and remelting them.  If you have mixed some baits that use something other then plastisol, and there are some other materials out there now, then it could create the same issue.

I don't believe the mold sealer is sticking to the bait once injected, because the molds still look sealed? My issue very well could be the old baits I'm melting down, I have no idea what is in them. Thank you. 

[Anglinarcher]

Sealers are still suspect. 

If the bond is chemical, then indeed it will wear down over time as it sticks to items.  If the bond is mechanical, it will not show wear.  It still can be mechanical but on a microscopic level.

When things bond, they bond in different ways.  I don't know the sealer, so I cannot tell you for sure, but I do know that plastisol does not seem to stick to much, in fact, we all wish there was a easy to paint plastisol.  Perhaps the components of "your sealer" is like the new generation of paints that they are working on.

[Baitjunkys]

14 hours ago, Basseducer said:

Mineral oil makes them hard as a rock.

It is how almost every major manufacturer lubes them up.

[Baitjunkys]

I would not be using worm oil in the mold cavity. As it is generally a plasticizer.

[Reel Screamer]

19 hours ago, mark poulson said:

In my limited experience, worm oil acts like a softener, so that may be your problem.  Try using spray PAM instead, and see if that helps.

Thank you. I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard because Pam is a food based product, it actually grows fungus or mold over time. Example, if the casting mold sits for a long period of time, when you open it up, a fungus has grown in the cavity adhearing to the cavity causing corosion to the plaster of paris. All hear say to me at this point. 

[Reel Screamer]

11 hours ago, Anglinarcher said:

Sealers are still suspect. 

If the bond is chemical, then indeed it will wear down over time as it sticks to items.  If the bond is mechanical, it will not show wear.  It still can be mechanical but on a microscopic level.

When things bond, they bond in different ways.  I don't know the sealer, so I cannot tell you for sure, but I do know that plastisol does not seem to stick to much, in fact, we all wish there was a easy to paint plastisol.  Perhaps the components of "your sealer" is like the new generation of paints that they are working on.

I am favoring the plastic  or old melted baits. My reason is I have almost 2 dozen plaster of paris molds, they are all sealed with different products (floor polish, finger nail polish, Mod Podge, Elmers glue mix) but I'm getting the same results to all the baits regardless of what mold I use. Weird thing is, even the old melted down baits are all from different companies, and different times in my life when I purchased them, some new some are decades olds.?? I'm also using a laser thermometer to regular the cooking temps.

[Reel Screamer]

15 hours ago, Basseducer said:

I find that when I demold while the bait is still very hot it tends to be sticky. But after a day or two the stickiness becomes less. Then I package with oil based scent and the stickiness is completely gone. You might also make sure you are mixing your plastic very well before using.

I laid my fresh poured baits in a tray of water to see if that helps in the curing or removal of the stickiness.  It actually lighten the color of the bait, and has helped the stickiness a bit. Thank you

[Reel Screamer]

38 minutes ago, Baitjunkys said:

I would not be using worm oil in the mold cavity. As it is generally a plasticizer.

Thank you. But the molds need some sort of lube or the baits seem to stick in place. I recently switched to mineral oil and it seems better in removing the baits from the mold, but the sticky feeling is still there.

[McLuvin175]

Worm Oil is your problem. Dont use it as a mold release. It will do exactly as you are observing, making the baits sticky. Mineral oil will work as a mold release just dont over do it. Pam and other cooking sprays use some form of vegetable oil/ seed oil and Lecithin.  Those seem like things that critters will feed on.  Probably fine if you use your baits rather quickly. If your storing long term you might run into issues.

Edited October 26, 2017 by McLuvin175

[Reel Screamer]

17 minutes ago, McLuvin175 said:

Worm Oil is your problem. Dont use it as a mold release. It will do exactly as you are observing, making the baits sticky. Mineral oil will work as a mold release just dont over do it. Pam and other cooking sprays use some form of vegetable oil/ seed oil and Lecithin.  Those seem like things that critters will feed on.  Probably fine if you use your baits rather quickly. If your storing long term you might run into issues.

Thank you for your information. I did just last might switch from worm oil to mineral oil.

[Basseducer]

1 hour ago, Baitjunkys said:

It is how almost every major manufacturer lubes them up.

I must have been thinking of baby oil.

[alsworms]

50 minutes ago, Basseducer said:

I must have been thinking of baby oil.

Yes baby oil will turn your baits into pencils.  LOL

[McLuvin175]

Although not ideal it would be better to use Softener instead of Worm Oil. Now this will depend on the manufacturer of said products. I have run production using Mineral Oil as a mold release. We would cut it with Isopropyl Alcohol and only add 5% mineral oil. Loaded that into a old pneumatic paint gun and sprayed the mold. At only 5% oil you were left with a very light coat of oil after the alcohol flashed off. It did not have any deleterious effects at that level. Baby Oil is probably a heavier weight than the mineral oil I used but this principle should still work. You could mix a solution like that and apply it with a brush versus a gun. 

[Reel Screamer]

Mixing with alcohol,  That's a great idea! Thanks very much for your help.