Matt Moreau Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Wassup Guys!!! Sorry I have been MIA for a while. Got a new job and had a little girl a few years ago so time has not been spent in the shop. I recently got back out and building again so I am trying to see what the latest is on the all purpose, do it all, dippable, one coat, dries rock hard in 5 min no turner needed brilliant UV stable top coat. OK now that that is out of my system... I am fully aware that the best finish is purely subjective and probably never going to be found. Thus, I am looking to see whats the latest on top coats. From what i can dig up its basically still the same from 3 years ago... Epoxy, DN/MCU or in some cases concrete sealer. Well I have tried DN 4 times and never could get it to last even with utilizing all the bloxygen methods so I am kinda fed up with that stuff. Epoxy even decuopages have all cracked and failed over time and so it will kill me to finish a bait knowing it only has a few years to live. My go to 3 years ago was 2 part auto clear but now with California restrictions on VOC I cannot get the good stuff anymore! I went goodies shopping a last week and bought 2 concrete sealers to test. One is lacquer based and one is Acrylic xylene based. From my tests they both react to water based paints but very differently. The acrylic one is temperamental and if you do a good heat treat and put the createx top coat on it will be ok, but the lacquer is opposite if you use the top coat it tends to crack and react more. Both seem to produce a very hard finish but it seems both are prone to worm burn. Other than DN, Epoxies and Auto clear what finishes are not susceptible to worm burn? I still have my lure turner I can go back to epoxy if I have to but I know there is something I can buy in CA that is a better option. Also, I never liked water based finishes because they all seemed to turn white and soft if there is prolonged water exposure like leaving them on rain soaked deck. Maybe putting a final layer of polycrylic over a concrete sealer may work for the worm burn though? Advise and suggestions welcome...actually I am begging for them! Cheers, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I've tried everything you mentioned except the DN, because of the storage issues. I am going to try KBS Diamond coat next. It's supposed to be bulletproof, and, while it a mcu, it's not supposed to be as hard to store as the DN. I got my quart here, along with 4 oz of their thinner: https://www.kbs-coatings.com/DiamondFinish-Clear.html#pr-header-8 I bought a spray bottle of bloxygen online. I just decanted my quart into a mason jar. After I'd poured the KBS into the jar, I sprayed the bloxygen against the inside of the jar for 2 seconds per the instructions. Then I closed the jar, with a layer of clear plastic (thick baggie material) between the lid and the jar, to prevent the lid from sealing itself shut, and latched the wire lock. It's sitting on my workbench now, waiting for me to paint something. Hahaha Congratulations on your daughter! Welcome back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Shouldn't be too difficult to set up a dehumidifier in a room to get the humidity down. I have had to rig up humidity controlled rooms at work a few times and easily get from mid 50 down to single digits running a dehumidifier (multiple) in small 10x10 spaces. A small bathroom would be no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 why cant you purchase automotive clear coats? autobody supply should sell quarts. .you can mix it and dip ..spray is best. it wont interfere with plastics either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I use the KBS diamond clear and epoxy depending on what kind of bait it is. Something that needs as little weight as possible like a jerk bait, shad rap style gets the KBS. A squarebill or deep diver that's going to be cranked through the nasty stuff gets the tougher epoxy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 hours ago, woodieb8 said: why cant you purchase automotive clear coats? autobody supply should sell quarts. .you can mix it and dip ..spray is best. it wont interfere with plastics either. @woodieb8I can get Auto clear but its the low VOC CA compliant crap. I bought some to spray the tailgate of my truck about a year ago and its worthless. Maybe they have refined the waterbourne formulas now but when I looked at some forum posts back then to find out what I screwed up I found that the results were not great. Auto clear was all I used for years so I feel a bit naked now without it! lol 5 hours ago, mark poulson said: I've tried everything you mentioned except the DN, because of the storage issues. I am going to try KBS Diamond coat next. It's supposed to be bulletproof, and, while it a mcu, it's not supposed to be as hard to store as the DN. ... Congratulations on your daughter! Welcome back! @mark poulsonThanks Mark! I read the thread Nathan started and a few others on KBS but was still skeptical with my experiences with MCU's. Also, I mold most of my swimbaits and cast them. The Urethane resin degasses for awhile and with KBS already having bubble issues I was even more scared. I may still try it and tap the bottom of the can like we did back in the day with DN and either brush it or spray it on with my little auto clear gun. Figured I would try this local stuff first and that doesn't seem to be panning out. 5 hours ago, Bassinfool said: I use the KBS diamond clear and epoxy depending on what kind of bait it is. Something that needs as little weight as possible like a jerk bait, shad rap style gets the KBS. A squarebill or deep diver that's going to be cranked through the nasty stuff gets the tougher epoxy. @Bassinfool So in your experience the KBS isn't durable? Man the baits I actually got done with DN were very durable and still fishing today! I only fish for bass though no toothy critters. If I could have figured out the storage issues I would still be using DN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I still think you need to look into Alumilite AlumiUV. Once set up, it pretty much meets all of your request. 9 hours ago, Matt Moreau said: latest is on the all purpose, do it all, dippable, one coat, dries rock hard in 5 min no turner needed brilliant UV stable top coat. OK, at the strength of my UV, it takes 7 minutes, but close to your requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Anglinarcher said: I still think you need to look into Alumilite AlumiUV. Once set up, it pretty much meets all of your request. OK, at the strength of my UV, it takes 7 minutes, but close to your requirements. Hmm ok I will check it out...Havent heard of it before but I like and have used a lot of alumilite products in the past. I am guessing its a UV cured epoxy and those were getting popular when I fell out of the scene. 1 Question is if it is epoxy does it crack like 2ton, flexcoat or Etex over time? I make mostly big swimbaits and gliders so epoxies are not my first choice for a few reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I still use DN. To avoid the hardening problem, I use the “tap the can” storage method. I decant a small amount and use a soft brush to quickly flood coat the lure with MCU, then hang it to drip dry. It takes only a few seconds to do and works just a well as dipping. Haven’t tried it yet but the Alumi-UV sounds promising, if a little more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 The KBS is very tough from my experience with it and I have not had any issues with bubbling (yet). It is more of a personal preference for me. I beat the crap out of my squarebills and deep divers throwing them in stuff most guys will steer clear of which is why I use epoxy 90% of the time for those baits. I haven't tried many baits dipped with the KBS in these areas for long enough to be able to say definitively that they won't stand up, I'm sure they would, it's just my preference for the epoxy like I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Personally, I think MCU is tougher and slicker than epoxy per equal thickness. But epoxy, especially D2T, is applied much thicker and in my experience will hold up better to hook rash than one thinner coat of MCU. I like D2T on wood baits that will be trolled for long periods and wood baits that end up with a less than smooth surface after finishing. Otherwise, MCU is fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Matt Moreau said: Hmm ok I will check it out...Havent heard of it before but I like and have used a lot of alumilite products in the past. I am guessing its a UV cured epoxy and those were getting popular when I fell out of the scene. 1 Question is if it is epoxy does it crack like 2ton, flexcoat or Etex over time? I make mostly big swimbaits and gliders so epoxies are not my first choice for a few reasons. It is not an epoxy but, per their words: "Alumi-UV is a single component, semi-flexible, extremely durable, clear doming and coating resin. Once cured with UV light (365nm), it produces a high gloss coating on paper, plastic, wood, metal, and more. Alumi-UV has a medium viscosity which is great for covering items and applying even coating to unsymmetrical shaped items. Multiple coats can be applied to build coating thickness. This one part system is shelf stable when stored between 55 and 80 degrees F. " Setting up the lights for production system would take some money, but for hobbyist, you can get UV nail cure lights used for manicures. Epoxies crack over time because they are two part, and that they always are curing for life. Slow cure epoxies are better, Bar Coating type epoxies are the best for durability and retaining flexibility, but they will have issues with extreme temperatures. UV cure items, like the white fillings in your teeth and AlumiUV cure until the active ingredients are used up and then they stop, so the flexibility is controllable. I will leave the link at the bottom. Personally I am shocked that it is not used more often. It is low smell, fast cure, strong, super clear, and if kept out of UV light then it will not harden in the can like the MC can. I know that not every product is the best for everyone, and I still have my lure turner in case I want to do some with Etec. My last can of MC was rock hard when I tossed it out (did not like the humidity in Louisiana). I wish there was a silver bullet. After all, Mark will tell us all we need is Sally Hanson Hard As Nails clear fingernail polish. He likes it, and yes, I have a bottle of it myself. (Don't tell my wife, she will not understand. LOL) Good luck on your search. There are so many opinions, so many options, and no one option is best for everyone. I like to use the redhead, blond, brunette, black hair women analogy. Which one is best? ALL OF THEM! https://www.alumilite.com/store/p/1027-Alumi-UV.aspx Edited January 9, 2018 by Anglinarcher added link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hahaha. Depends on the crowd you run with, I guess. Seriously, when I dip a crank in something other than UV cured resin, I will coat the path that the belly treble swings in with clear nail polish, to prevent hook rash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Anglinarcher said: It is not an epoxy but, per their words: "Alumi-UV is a single component, semi-flexible, extremely durable, clear doming and coating resin. Once cured with UV light (365nm), it produces a high gloss coating on paper, plastic, wood, metal, and more. Alumi-UV has a medium viscosity which is great for covering items and applying even coating to unsymmetrical shaped items. Multiple coats can be applied to build coating thickness. This one part system is shelf stable when stored between 55 and 80 degrees F. " Setting up the lights for production system would take some money, but for hobbyist, you can get UV nail cure lights used for manicures. Epoxies crack over time because they are two part, and that they always are curing for life. Slow cure epoxies are better, Bar Coating type epoxies are the best for durability and retaining flexibility, but they will have issues with extreme temperatures. UV cure items, like the white fillings in your teeth and AlumiUV cure until the active ingredients are used up and then they stop, so the flexibility is controllable. I will leave the link at the bottom. Personally I am shocked that it is not used more often. It is low smell, fast cure, strong, super clear, and if kept out of UV light then it will not harden in the can like the MC can. I know that not every product is the best for everyone, and I still have my lure turner in case I want to do some with Etec. My last can of MC was rock hard when I tossed it out (did not like the humidity in Louisiana). I wish there was a silver bullet. After all, Mark will tell us all we need is Sally Hanson Hard As Nails clear fingernail polish. He likes it, and yes, I have a bottle of it myself. (Don't tell my wife, she will not understand. LOL) Good luck on your search. There are so many opinions, so many options, and no one option is best for everyone. I like to use the redhead, blond, brunette, black hair women analogy. Which one is best? ALL OF THEM! https://www.alumilite.com/store/p/1027-Alumi-UV.aspx Interesting read and product. Thank you for posting this! I guess I will have to experiment with the stuff a little to see how I like it. I have been reading some very interesting posts with Mark and his nail polish, but I expected that from a SoCal guy. Somewhat concerning to see he now lives in my backyard it seems! ;-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 hours ago, BobP said: I still use DN. To avoid the hardening problem, I use the “tap the can” storage method. I decant a small amount and use a soft brush to quickly flood coat the lure with MCU, then hang it to drip dry. It takes only a few seconds to do and works just a well as dipping. Haven’t tried it yet but the Alumi-UV sounds promising, if a little more expensive. @BobP I forget its been so long but when you tap the can do you initially put a layer of bloxygen Bob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Matt, Remember that LED lights give off UV rays. I found that out the hard way, when my UV cure resin cured inside my garage, with all the doors closed and no sunlight. When I dip now I only have the old fluorescent lights up near the 11' ceiling on, and that saves my UV cure resin. And I don't need UV light to cure my nail polish! Edited January 10, 2018 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I put a vent screw in the top of the can and a pour screw in the bottom side. Since I had a can of Bloxygen handy I shot a little in the vent after dispensing but am not sure if it’s really necessary. I can’t remember whether the guys who started using this storage method added Bloxygen. I don’t think so but? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
