Baits not smooth

[gone2long]

40 minutes ago, Juan said:

Never used a degasser I don’t know how long it should be in or how much to put in there

You'll know the first time you use it

[Frank]

3 hours ago, Juan said:

Never used a degasser I don’t know how long it should be in or how much to put in there

It will grow and bubbles will rise to the tp and pop. then it will relax and go back down. The examples of chambers do come with a gauge and after the first time you will know at what amount of vacuum it will do its thing. You will have much better looking baits after that. As for how much you put in is going to be decided by the sizes of the mold you make. 

[Juan]

Thank you for info

[Landry]

Warming will likely reduce the pits but yes demolding takes longer. I get smoother and smoother pours as I go which begs the question - are the tiny air bubbles causing it or is it formaldehyde gas being pulled from the silicone itself, (which is another theory I have seen).

I will likely be adding a degasser to my lineup sometime soon as I think I will get the best possible bait that way other than making an aluminum Mold. 

I think degassing the silicone Mold and then degassing the plastisol before pouring would be the ultimate - provided your master carving is epoxy coated so u get a glass clear Mold surface. 

Problem is - every time I sell a bunch of muskie lures, I go ahead and spend the money on new lure making toys. I'm not making any headway. Lol. 

And according to SmoithOn you need at least an 8CFM vacuum pump so that makes the purchase more like $500-$700. 

[Baitjunkys]

Were did you read that at. Cfm does ma tter for speed.  But Not sure how they can recomend a cfm without a chamber size as well.  You do whstever you like but I can degass silicone with a 3 or 6 cfm pump all dqy long.

[Frank]

CFM is how fast it will get to a desired Hg but all of them will get to there max Hg in time. Not sure what they mean either. As for any other theory's try and fix the ones you can control and go from there. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Frank

[Baitjunkys]

Exactly. A 3 cfm pump will do 3 cubic feet as fast as a 8cfm pump will do 8 cubic feet. If we were talking doing gallons at a time id be concerned. I would buy a 6cfm in a heart beat. I have 2 actually.   Degassing in a 3 gallon pot with 30 minute silicone you will have plenty of time 

[Landry]

22 minutes ago, Baitjunkys said:

Exactly. A 3 cfm pump will do 3 cubic feet as fast as a 8cfm pump will do 8 cubic feet. If we were talking doing gallons at a time id be concerned. I would buy a 6cfm in a heart beat. I have 2 actually.   Degassing in a 3 gallon pot with 30 minute silicone you will have plenty of time 

SmiithOn said that on their website.  Maybe they say that to cover their backsides and to allow fast setting products to be used  

That is good news then for me. I was thinking of getting a 2-5gallon chamber. How long would it take to degassing silicon in these chambers with a 3CFM or a 6CFM pump in your experiences?

and should it be a two stage motor?

thanks guys  

 

[Anglinarcher]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18dvPrp7jEj9-cO7Z2Iqf9K3KNEOVjae8

Before I got my vacuum system, I did a lot of research and also contacted Alumilite.  I got some good information that I think might help you.  The above video is a shaky video I did for a test video when I was doing to test my camera equipment.  It is short, so you can see how long it took for about 200 ml of silicone that I was doing.

I cannot find the written response so I will go from memory and give you what I can from my system.

1. You don't need a 3 or 6 gallon chamber, but you do need a chamber about 3 times larger than the largest amount you plan to degas.  So, I figured I would need about a pint of material max at any one time so I only really needed a 3 pint size, less than a gallon.  I opted for a 1.5 gallon size because I found a great price on Amazon for the package I wanted.
   1. The reason for the size is because the material foams up and expands a lot when you degas.  Silicone expands different then Plastisol, or Resin, etc., but the amount of expansion seems to be equal or less than 3 times.
2. Smooth-On and Alumilite both suggested a Rotary Vane vacuum pump, two stage.  I am not going to try to explain it, just pass it on.
3.  Alumilite suggested a 6 CFM (cubic feet per minute) size pump.  I doubt that I needed that much pump for the 1.5 gallon size chamber I got, but I went with the suggested volume.  One thing is for sure, when I am degassing a fast setting resin, I want it to be as fast as possible and having that bigger pump is awesome.  When degassing Plastisol or even the slower curing silicone, it is not so big a deal.
4. Zero pressure is a bit of a misnomer.  We can get close; we can get close enough.  The thicker the material, the lower the pressure needs to go.  
   1. The gage you will get will read zero when you have your unit properly set up, but this is zero relative to your elevation.  At sea level, you might be able to get a reading as low as minus 29 or minus 30 inches of mercury, but at 4000 feet elevation, you might only get to minus 24 inches of mercury.  Both are almost zero pressure.  Don't let the gage reading confuse you.  Your material will tell you when it is ready.
5. Once you place your material in the vacuum and start it, the material will foam and expand.  Once it expands to the maximum (quickly), shut it down and let the air back in to collapse it.  This will crush the bubbles.  Now draw a vacuum again.  I find that doing this a couple of times is all I need, and with a fast setting material, all I have time for.

You will need to log in, but you can do a search on this help forum or ask the question from Alumilite.

https://alumilite.freeforums.net/board/4/molding-casting

[Baitjunkys]

In my experience your not getting the air out unless you pull vacumm and let it pop on its own. Letting air in doesnt pop the bubbles it only lets them rest back into the material. ONe single time is all that is needed. I have probably degassed at least 500 drums of plastic 1 gallon at a time.  Take my advice for what its worth.

[Landry]

Thanks guys. 

I think I will go with a 6CFM pump as recommended by you guys and I will get a chamber that is three times the size of my biggest possible silicon batch. 

Really appreciate the insight. For now my molds pour very nice once warmed up but I will eventually replace them with degassed ones starting with a couple this Spring. 

I appreciate your help greatly. 

Hioefully Juan got something out of this as I ended up hijacking his thread. Sorry. 

[Juan]

It’s all good as long as we all get the info we need

[Anglinarcher]

3 hours ago, Juan said:

It’s all good as long as we all get the info we need

I am so glad that you got what you need.  There is a wealth of information on this site.  Hover your mouse over ACTIVITY at the top right of the screen, on the drop down menu go to search, click on it and enter your question.  Great information from a lot of people.

Some of us are new tackle makers, even first timers, and that is OK because they are the future.  New people, new ideas.

Some of us are experienced hobbyist.  From this group I believe you will get a lot of great information, some weird ideas, some unique ideas, some time tested ideas, some new ideas.  Those of us in this category are always innovating.  Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't.

Some of us are professionals, either suppliers, manufacturers, or custom makers.  From this group you will get ways that work for them, ways that keep their business going.

I believe what you will find out is that we don't all agree with each other.  Sometimes we even seem to disagree with each other.  Don't think of this as right and wrong ideas, consider this as ideas that work for some and not for others. Sometimes we get downright disagreeable with each other.  Just remember, we all come from different backgrounds, with different equipment, with different experiences.  But that does not mean someone is more or less correct, just that their experience has yielded different results.  When someone starts to put someone down, or their ideas down, give them the benefit of the doubt, consider it a bad day.

Good luck on your tackle making.  It is a fun and rewarding thing to do, or in my case, HOBBY.