glider\swimmer

[highwayman]

Need some guidance on hook positioning. You guys do more of this stuff than I do. It's wood (pine) with some ballast. Think it will sink when hooks are added. Just trying to avoid a lot of drilling and filling in the trial and error procedure. Don't worry, I won't speak badly of you if your suggestion doesn't work. Thanks in advance for any input.

[Anglinarcher]

Highwayman, 

3 hours ago, highwayman said:

I won't speak badly of you if your suggestion doesn't work.

I'll hold you to that.  LOL

I first suggest that lots of places will work, it is a matter of balance that matters most.  I prefer to place the hooks before painting, or at least before painting the final version.  When I place the hooks, I want the bait to fall almost horizontal, or a little nose first.

I also prefer the first segment to be a little longer, but I am still convinced your proportions will work.  

To start the discussion, I suggest two hooks, one just before the first joint, on in the middle of the last joint.

Good luck, and I love the work.

 

[highwayman]

One of the things that I'm trying to avoid is hooks that tangle with each other.I have a lot of store bought baits that do this and it drives me crazy.I think that is poor design by the manufactures.I was thinking about using an eye screw for the pin and hook position in the second section and one around the 5 1\2" mark on the front section.Probably shouldn't consider putting a hook in the last section?Thanks for the response.

[Anglinarcher]

I actually prefer a hook in the last section.  Lots of fish are attracted to a bait, but it takes more to trigger the strike.  The attracted tend to hit the tail so one in the back section works well.  In Europe I have seen custom baits with hook hangers that went back that far for the same reason.  

19 minutes ago, highwayman said:

I'm trying to avoid is hooks that tangle with each other

I agree, lots of lures made to catch fisherman, not fish.  LOL  I have spent lots of time changing to short shank hooks to stop that tangle so I understand.

[JD_mudbug]

I agree with Anglingarcher.  I like a hook in the tail section. I also like 2 hooks. 3 hook baits are a pain to deal with and seem to do way more damage to fish.

 When I make a bait like that, I put one hook near the first joint at the 5 inch mark. Sometimes the front hook screw is at the back of the head section at 5-1/2. Sometimes,  I put the front hook eye screw at the front of the middle section at 4-1/2. I try to line it up so the hook points will not be near the joint between the sections.

I put the tail hook eye screw near the 1-3/4 mark so the hook is near the tail fin. I can’t tell what the tail fin is made of on your bait. I personally do not like a hard tail fin. I think it interferes with hookups.  If the tail fin is a hard fin, I would probably move the tail hook placement up a bit.

You can use a piece of tape or thin rubber bands to hold the screw with the ring and hook attached to the bottom of the bait. Drop it in a bucket of water to see how it falls.

I use a soft tail fin. You can make soft fins out of paint brush of other hair type fibers, flexible plastic form things like margarine/food containers, or using tails from other soft plastic baits like a Fin-S fish.

This summer,  I starting using  silicone placemats bought of eBay for fins. They are cheap, easy to cut, come in a lot of different colors. I found some placemats that were 15 inches by ten inches for $2.50 each.  So far, they have worked well. I have not had one rip yet and they have great action.

Hooks that tangle drive me crazy as much as when the front hook catches on the bill. It’s nice now that most companies make short shank trebles.

[highwayman]

This is why I asked for help.I assumed putting hooks on the rear section would kill the action but both of you feel differently.The tail is a lure box divider.Your take on the hard tail is interesting. This was my first try at a swimbait. After making it I lost interest and put it away.Then I put my old lady shower curtain paint job on it and put it away again.Then I put scales\mesh on it and put it away again.Then I stripped it and Jig Skinned it.I made another one that I finished that is similar.I call it my summer bait-summer the times it works and summer the time it doesn't.Maybe if "we" can get this one to swim right, I can get the other one to be more consistent.Thanks for the input.

[mark poulson]

Here's what I've found to be true.

If you keep the rear hook toward the front of the tail section, and don't any other ballast to that section, it should work fine, and the tail will really swim hard.

The closer to the front of a section the hook hangs, the less leverage it has to affect the action.  That's why a hook near the rear of the first section is a good idea, because it helps keep the head stable.  That's also why having a longer head section helps to stabilize the bait, and keep the swimming action in the next sections.

[highwayman]

Thanks for the reply Mark.Just to make it easier to understand could you use the measurements on the ruler for the hook placements? 2 1\2 and 5 1\2  is that what you are thinking?

[mark poulson]

1 hour ago, highwayman said:

Thanks for the reply Mark.Just to make it easier to understand could you use the measurements on the ruler for the hook placements? 2 1\2 and 5 1\2  is that what you are thinking?

That looks right to me.  I put my bottom hinge hardware higher in those sections, so the hook hangers have enough room.

If you're adding the hook hangers after the baits are finished, and using screw eyes for hook hangers, try angling them to clear the hinge hardware.  I would place a screw eye onto the face of the lure, and mark where it is located, so I could plan a path that wouldn't hit the screw eye.    If there just isn't enough room, because the hanger would have to lay too flat and not have enough meat to make it strong, I would angle drill, and let the hook hanger pass next to the screw eye.  As long as you angle the front hanger to one side, and the rear hanger to the other, it shouldn't affect you bait's balance too much.

[Chuck Young]

The one thing I don't like on swimbaits is that the rear hook is usually too far forward. I have knocked around the idea of using a section of heavy braid tied and superglued to the rear hanger in a way that makes it protrude rearward - past the tail. Then I would tie my treble or single hook to it. I haven't tried it yet. The question is how much it will kill the action. But when my pool thaws out, I will. In my opinion, the further back the hook is, the more hookups you will get. Those predators love to  take short strikes. 

[mark poulson]

8 hours ago, Chuck Young said:

The one thing I don't like on swimbaits is that the rear hook is usually too far forward. I have knocked around the idea of using a section of heavy braid tied and superglued to the rear hanger in a way that makes it protrude rearward - past the tail. Then I would tie my treble or single hook to it. I haven't tried it yet. The question is how much it will kill the action. But when my pool thaws out, I will. In my opinion, the further back the hook is, the more hookups you will get. Those predators love to  take short strikes. 

I think a three section bait, with the last hinge joint wider, should have enough action to let you add a treble at the very end,  as long as you make the first section long enough to keep it stable.  I use a 2/1/1 ratio, and keep all the ballast in the first section.

[highwayman]

I took the leap of faith and mounted the hooks at the 2 1\2 and 5 1\2 marks.I put the eye screws in at an angle so they wouldn't hit the hinge screws.Unfortunately winter won't loosen it's grip on New England and I'm having a bit of a poor spell .Once I get back on my feet and the weather breaks I'll get out a progress report.Thanks for all the input.

[mark poulson]

11 minutes ago, highwayman said:

I took the leap of faith and mounted the hooks at the 2 1\2 and 5 1\2 marks.I put the eye screws in at an angle so they wouldn't hit the hinge screws.Unfortunately winter won't loosen it's grip on New England and I'm having a bit of a poor spell .Once I get back on my feet and the weather breaks I'll get out a progress report.Thanks for all the input.

I float test my baits to be sure the ballast is right in a 5 gallon bucket of water.  You can do the same thing in the kitchen sink or bath tub.

[Anglinarcher]

5 hours ago, highwayman said:

I took the leap of faith and mounted the hooks at the 2 1\2 and 5 1\2 marks.I put the eye screws in at an angle so they wouldn't hit the hinge screws.Unfortunately winter won't loosen it's grip on New England and I'm having a bit of a poor spell .Once I get back on my feet and the weather breaks I'll get out a progress report.Thanks for all the input.

Ya, I am having runoff issues on the moving water and spring turnover on my still water.  Can't see the details.  LOL

You might ask a motel with an indoor swimming pool.  Some of them will allow you to swim test it in at night or during the slow part of the early day.  I had a place do that for me in Spokane Washington a few years past, until people saw me doing it and it turned into a circus event.  ROFLOL  Everyone wanted to know who this idiot was trying to catch a fish in the pool.

[mark poulson]

23 minutes ago, Anglinarcher said:

Ya, I am having runoff issues on the moving water and spring turnover on my still water.  Can't see the details.  LOL

You might ask a motel with an indoor swimming pool.  Some of them will allow you to swim test it in at night or during the slow part of the early day.  I had a place do that for me in Spokane Washington a few years past, until people saw me doing it and it turned into a circus event.  ROFLOL  Everyone wanted to know who this idiot was trying to catch a fish in the pool.

Did you give them your real name?

[Anglinarcher]

Well, yes, and no.  What I did not say was that my youngest was the manager so she knew who I was.  LOL  As for the rest, NOT A CHANCE!

[mark poulson]

5 hours ago, Anglinarcher said:

Well, yes, and no.  What I did not say was that my youngest was the manager so she knew who I was.  LOL  As for the rest, NOT A CHANCE!

 That's a kid worth keeping!  Hahahah

[Anglinarcher]

2 hours ago, mark poulson said:

 That's a kid worth keeping!  Hahahah

Yes she is, but she quit and changed jobs.

I think she was embarrassed.  One day she gave the best room to my wife and myself for our Anniversary.  You know the type, hot tub in room, etc., etc.  Her employee was at the desk and my wife came in.  Without telling the employee who we were, my wife asked her if they had hourly rates.

My daughter screamed out "MOTHER".  We were not welcome there anymore.  ROFLOL