Guest DiyEngineer Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Is any one know things in bio plastic, i have some questions on a easy to make recipe i saw on another forum. I want to know how to make a gelatin based plastic non-soluble in water without the use of gelatinizing oil, I am asking because gelatin is not a true plastic, but rather an organic compound that rearranges a liquid that it is dissolved in, but certain chemicals can prevent it from bonding and forming a gel. If anyone can give some chemicals to harden it, make it insoluble, or make it into a true plastic can you please send some info? Thank for any help . Heres the site http://green-plastics.net/posts/84/qaa-can-i-make-bioplastic-fishing-lures/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DiyEngineer Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Also voting for the new formula on the three plastics end today, at 1:35 pm mountain time sorry for the interruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitjunkys Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Ive worked with soluble plastic for a customer, I think is has to be soluble to be biodegradable the two go hand in hand. But there soluble plastic is not bio degradable, I have also worked with 100% biodegradable plastic, water based, But the cost of manufacturing the end product is 3 fold, and the storage, Ie like berkley is expensive. I think most anything you come up with will require some sort of glycerin involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cami Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Hi DIYEng., perhaps this link could be useful: http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/22130-bass-mousse Bye Cami Edited April 5, 2018 by Cami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DiyEngineer Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Thank you for the help, I appreciate both of your comments. Also I want to ask if the recipe will last after one cast, Also baitjunkys, biodegradble is not only soluble, but also to decompose bacterially, oxidize, or break down after the composition has aged due too a certain unstabability, (thank you for your comment) and your are right about it being expensive when working with true bioplastics, but the recipe I was using was not a true bioplastic but rather a gelatinous compund that uses glycerol (like you said) that still dissolves in water, thank you both for the comments. Edited April 5, 2018 by DiyEngineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cami Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 If you leave such kind of soft bait at room temperature, it will begin stiff as a chewing gum, so hook can be placed and a lot of casts can be made. To maintain the rest of bait flexible the trick is to conserve it wrapped in a plastic film. Anyway this kind of compound is really degradable and in a month you can see traces of mold ... honestly I prefer PVC. I personally had another experience with another bioplastic: corn starch. Our Supplier produced Party Plates with powder corn starch, obtaining a colored (in mass), biodegradable, Food Contact Material bioplastic, close to PS as feeling contact, but ... it was hard, nor soft, nor flexible. Bye. Cami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaknsalt Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 I agree with Cam's link to Bass Mousse. I have tried that recipe and the green plastics one. The Bass Mousse holds up better with the Arabic gum, I used Xanthan Gum. Both recipes are highly water soluble which is good in the long run but bad for storage and durability while casting. I found this video recently which shows dipping the lures in a glass of tannins. I believe you can pick up tannins at home brew marts or DIY wine making shops. I would love to have some kind of eco friendly plastisol to pour my own lures but haven't found anything yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2qKkrlyftQ&t=4s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 Does anyone remember the biodegradable fishing line that came out about 10 years ago. Sure seems like it "dissolved" right out of the market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpssports Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Before getting into bait manufacturing we worked 20 years in the paintball industry. In the early 2000's RP Scherer tried using the corn starch based plastic/gelatin mixture. It worked well, but water would still break down the shell over time just as if they were using straight gelatin. About 8 years ago there was a start up company called Hydrotech that actually developed a plastic that could be used with a full water based fill & not break down. It instead relied on bacteria to naturally break it down. The company lost investors & never made it off the ground but I do know one of the guys that was there during the development. I may have to send him a message & see if he would share what type of plastic they were using. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I would certainly be interested in any information/progress. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy661 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hello, Totally newbie to the TU. I don't know why I haven't viewed this site before. Anyways, @hpssports , curious if you were able to get any information from your Hydrotech buddy? Also, to everyone, any tips on how to keep gelatin based lures sealed stored with out using plastic bags or plastic containers? Tying to be plastic free , but am OK using plastic if it can be used over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw22 Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 westy661, what about submerging them in a glass jar of olive oil? Like preserving food and shouldn't dissolve the bait. I wonder if it would keep the bait supple over months and protect it from dissolving in the water over the first several casts. Could even scent the oil. I also have the goal of fishing plastic free. I saw your recipe on the bass mousse thread and am interested if you have any updates. (First post on TU.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dorrington Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) I have tried a recipe that works great and doesn't dissolve straight away, I used gelatin and glycerin in a 1:1 ratio (heated in a pan until gelatin has dissolved) to cast the lures then after letting them setup in the freezer for an hour I sit them in a solution of 1tsp tannin to 1 cup water this stops the lure dissolving so quickly this mixture gives a firm yet flexible lure hopefully this is what your all looking for also at molten stage you can add liquid food colouring/flavours I have another recipe I'm trying out that could be even better and uses really cheap and easy to get ingredients glycerin/gelatin/water/honey (2:2:1:1) Edited February 23, 2020 by Luke Dorrington Missed out some information 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Luke - this is good. I just wish I could buy gelatin here in Indonesia. It is an Islamic halal/haram thing, gelatin comes from pigs. So frustrating Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBait Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Luke D. - I have also tried the glycerin/gelatin/water/honey (2:2:1:1) but added Sorbitol which keeps them from drying out as fast. When setup, they closely match the feel and flexibility of plastisol. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 NewBait - this is a very interesting idea. I Googled Sorbitol and found that it was basically an alcohol substance. I cannot get gelatin here in Indonesia because it is an animal product that goes against religious rules (haram). Even the international supermarkets no longer carry gelatin. I do however have plenty of 75% alcohol to play with. I might give this a try with the locally available 'agar agar' and see what effect it has. Thanks for the idea. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Vodkaman said: NewBait - this is a very interesting idea. I Googled Sorbitol and found that it was basically an alcohol substance. I cannot get gelatin here in Indonesia because it is an animal product that goes against religious rules (haram). Even the international supermarkets no longer carry gelatin. I do however have plenty of 75% alcohol to play with. I might give this a try with the locally available 'agar agar' and see what effect it has. Thanks for the idea. Dave Agar agar can be directly substituted for gelatin at the same ratio. I think I shared this patent in the past on the biodegradable threads but could be wrong. https://patents.google.com/patent/US6753004B2/en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Travis - Good information. I have experimented with agar-agar in the past, with and without glycerine. I found that it tears much easier than gelatin which is bad enough. Of course, the main problem with these ingredients is that you will not be making 50 baits per hour unless you have 50 molds. It takes time for the baits to cool and solidify. But not having Plastisol available, I am excited to explore this possibility. I intend to also experiment with the addition of some tapioca powder which might also improve the tear factor. The beauty of these materials (not tapioca) is that they can be remelted, so a batch can be made and used over several sessions. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingLegacy Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 I hope you're all willing to continue the conversation because I recently encountered this thread and I've been on mission to create a bioplastic bait for a few months now. Although I'm still in the experimental stage, I've concluded that gelatin (visual of plug, below) is not suitable because it's melting point is too low - can't be subjected to the summer heat; and the gelatin continues to expand when submerged in water. Otherwise, gelatin and glycerin produces the perfect flexible, soft plastic for baits. Lately, I'm working on a recipe that expands upon the use of agar-agar and glycerin (bait shapes for testing, below). Soon, I'll be introducing Locust Bean Gum (LBG), Xanthan Gum(XG), Guar Gum (GG) and Sorbitol in effort to reduce weeping (water loss), reduce the brittle nature of Agar, and create a stronger, firmer, rubbery material. I've not been able to narrow down just how much of LBG, XG, GG or Sorbitol to start with. Does anyone have knowledge or experience with LBG, XG, GG or Sorbitol? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 I have read those articles too, only I was not able to source those ingredients locally. I wish you luck with your project. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltensurf Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 On 4/5/2018 at 10:26 AM, Guest DiyEngineer said: Is any one know things in bio plastic, i have some questions on a easy to make recipe i saw on another forum. I want to know how to make a gelatin based plastic non-soluble in water without the use of gelatinizing oil, I am asking because gelatin is not a true plastic, but rather an organic compound that rearranges a liquid that it is dissolved in, but certain chemicals can prevent it from bonding and forming a gel. If anyone can give some chemicals to harden it, make it insoluble, or make it into a true plastic can you please send some info? Thank for any help . Heres the site http://green-plastics.net/posts/84/qaa-can-i-make-bioplastic-fishing-lures/ I saw a video the guy was using tannin mixed in a small glass of water. 1 teaspoon of tannin. He’s soaks the finished Bates in tannin water for one minute. This makes the baits less soluble in water. It also increases cross linking. How do you like the flexibility of your Baits? What is the bloom strength of the gelatin you were using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltensurf Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 (edited) On 3/9/2022 at 1:58 PM, FishingLegacy said: I hope you're all willing to continue the conversation because I recently encountered this thread and I've been on mission to create a bioplastic bait for a few months now. Although I'm still in the experimental stage, I've concluded that gelatin (visual of plug, below) is not suitable because it's melting point is too low - can't be subjected to the summer heat; and the gelatin continues to expand when submerged in water. Otherwise, gelatin and glycerin produces the perfect flexible, soft plastic for baits. Lately, I'm working on a recipe that expands upon the use of agar-agar and glycerin (bait shapes for testing, below). Soon, I'll be introducing Locust Bean Gum (LBG), Xanthan Gum(XG), Guar Gum (GG) and Sorbitol in effort to reduce weeping (water loss), reduce the brittle nature of Agar, and create a stronger, firmer, rubbery material. I've not been able to narrow down just how much of LBG, XG, GG or Sorbitol to start with. Does anyone have knowledge or experience with LBG, XG, GG or Sorbitol? in this video, it shows the use of tannin It increases cross-linking, and makes the baits less soluble in water. I also found that if you add fruit pectin to gelatin it raises the melting point temperature An optimum tannin content around 10 wt% in gelatin–tannin films gives rise to strong, thermally stable, moisture resistant and flexible films as mechanical, What is the bloom strength of the gelatin you are using? Edited July 18 by Moltensurf I found more information regarding post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
