Rattle can clear coat problem

[Mr.Stone]

Good afternoon everybody.

Today I decided to try foiling some lures I made, the foiling went OK for my first try at it. I was excited about clear coating the foiled lures so that I could paint them.

I used a local brand of rattle can clear and warmed up the can and shaked it for quite some time before spraying it, as I sprayed a coat on the lure the whole thing went milky, literally looking like I sprayed it with milk and thats pretty much how it set, looking milky.

Any ideas on why it did this? I could try post a picture but I doubt would help.  Is it a bad can of clear or just a bad product? I had problems with a white primer of the same brand in the sense that it wouldn't cover / make a solid white background to paint over.

Thank you

 

[AZ Fisher]

I have used Rustoleum 2X clear on some larger baits with no issues. I just paint directly over the foil, I'm using holo nail foils and heat stamp foils,  and have had no issues.  I usually use KBS or Devcon D2T for clearing.  When you say "Local" do you mean like Walmart house brand, that is probably where the problem lies. When can spraying,  many light coats is best. JMHO

[Mr.Stone]

Im also thinking about painting directly over the foil and then using a pour on similar to etex.  I've just seen this is how some people on YouTube would do it. They would make the lure, lay down a primer, then base colours, then foil, then clear from a can and then final colours and over that a pour on epoxy.

By local I meant a popular product here in south Africa, so its not from walmart.I've used some of their products a long time ago and it was nothing great but also nothing like this stuff.

There are quite a bit of rustoleum products available here, at around 4 times the price of the local brand. But if I could get decent results from foiling then painting and applying a pour on clear there would be no real reason for buying and applying the canned clear.

What was interesting, just now I took a little blow torch like lighter and applied heat to the lure in question, the cloudy colour disappeared, but it also lifted the foil, wrinkling it, applying the heat more gradually prevented the foil from lifting and cleared up the milky finish, but it likely weakens the bond the foil has to the lure.

[JD_mudbug]

I got a milky result once using a spray can clear when I was spraying the lures outside when the humidity was high.  I sprayed 2 more coats on the lures in my basement with a dehumidifier running and the baits cleared up. You could just barely make out the original milky-ness.  

Maybe the clear had water vapor trapped in it and heating the lure caused the water vapor to off gas?

Edited May 6, 2018 by JD_mudbug
typo

[Musky Glenn]

My uneducated guess was that the spray can was Lacquer base and the humidity was high when you sprayed. Lacquer doesn't like moisture, turns white. Good luck.

[BobP]

I apply foil on an epoxy waterproof undercoating, then acrylic latex paint, then topcoat with epoxy or MCU.  I don’t really see the need for an intermediate coating but if I did, I’d use a clear acrylic latex airbrush paint.  I shoot my color basecoat, also acrylic airbrush paint, after foiling then clean any overspray with cotton swabs wetted with denatured alcohol.  This also removes any oil or oxidation from the foil and shines it up.

There are an infinite number of ways to finish a foiled bait.  This is just works for me.  Guys who use thick foil often epoxy the bait afterwards to hide the foil edges. I use thin foil so I can burnish the edges to hide them without that step. 

[Mr.Stone]

On 2018/05/06 at 9:40 PM, JD_mudbug said:

I got a milky result once using a spray can clear when I was spraying the lures outside when the humidity was high.  I sprayed 2 more coats on the lures in my basement with a dehumidifier running and the baits cleared up. You could just barely make out the original milky-ness.  

Maybe the clear had water vapor trapped in it and heating the lure caused the water vapor to off gas?

 

On 2018/05/07 at 12:56 AM, Musky Glenn said:

My uneducated guess was that the spray can was Lacquer base and the humidity was high when you sprayed. Lacquer doesn't like moisture, turns white. Good luck.

I stay near the coast, or near enough for the humidity to be high on a regular basis and the day I sprayed the humidity could have been on the high side so this could have been the cause of the clear going milky, I was also spraying outside.

The paint is lacquer based yes, I was not aware that this would be a problem but at least I know now.

Based on this, humidity wise,what is considered too high?

On 2018/05/07 at 3:26 AM, BobP said:

I apply foil on an epoxy waterproof undercoating, then acrylic latex paint, then topcoat with epoxy or MCU.  I don’t really see the need for an intermediate coating but if I did, I’d use a clear acrylic latex airbrush paint.  I shoot my color basecoat, also acrylic airbrush paint, after foiling then clean any overspray with cotton swabs wetted with denatured alcohol.  This also removes any oil or oxidation from the foil and shines it up.

There are an infinite number of ways to finish a foiled bait.  This is just works for me.  Guys who use thick foil often epoxy the bait afterwards to hide the foil edges. I use thin foil so I can burnish the edges to hide them without that step. 

I use thin foil as well, and I do burnish them as you described above. I would stick the foil over the lure, smooth out and burnish then I would polish the foil and then I would clean it up with rubbing alcohol.

So now after this I will spray a white base where I want it and then continue with colours and clean up as I go. When im happy with the paint job I will glue in the eye and then apply a pour on clear similar to etex, though I would prefer to apply two coats. I read somewhere if using a pour on you should apply the second coat before the first coat fully cures?

Thank you all for the informative replies.

 

[BobP]

The thickness of your epoxy topcoat is up to you but my opinion is thicker is better up to a certain point.  If you let ETEX sit after mixing for 10-15 minutes, you can apply it in a thicker coating.  You can recoat epoxy anytime up to 24-36 hours and microscopic examination will not be able to tell it’s not a single application, or so I’ve been told, so I think recoat times are mostly irrelevant.  I’ve said this several times, but Fatfingers posted an excellent member submitted tutorial titled Achieving a Perfect Finish about coating musky lures with ETEX.  Definitely worth a read.

[Mr.Stone]

I wont be using etex to coat the lures as it is difficult to get hold of it around here, but the product I will be using is also a pour on polymer compound.

The results I got from using this product to make "3d eyes" was really good so im looking forward to use it as a clear coat.

I will read that tutorial thank you BobP.

 

[McLuvin175]

One reason a solvent based lacquer can "milk up" after spraying has to do with the Dew Point. As the faster drying solvents in the lacquer evaporate, they lower the temperature of the substrate they left behind. If they lower it enough to hit the relative Dew Point it will cause moisture to condensate on the cooler surface. The moisture becomes entrapped in the lacquer and due to incompatibility you get milkiness.

In hind site warming the can may have actually exacerbated the problem. The warmer the lacquer is the faster it drys the quicker it will draw moisture out of the air. It may be better to actually warm the bait/piece your coating instead of the can to keep the lacquer film from getting to cool to quick. Just a theory. 

The manufacturer should have some guidelines or perhaps a Tech Data Sheet they can provide to give some pointers to prevent this issue. It might be worth firing off an e-mail or making a phone call to the Tech Support and see what they say; if they have one.

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by McLuvin175
grammer

[Mr.Stone]

Interesting point you bring up here McLuvin.  The can was in a cupboard, which is quite cool as that part of the house would not get much sun, so I took the can and placed it on top of my car roof in direct sun until the can felt "body temperature" or not cool when you pick it up and shake it. The foiled lure was inside on a desk, so it was cool but not cold. When I sprayed the clear coat on the lure it went milky basically instantaneously. Needless to say that put me off using that type of clear. I believe the manufacturer has a msds , though the msds is not specific to the clear coat but rather to their whole range.

It would actually be quite interesting to contact the manufacturer and see what they say about this, ill send them an email.

I actually got around to airbrushing my first two lures yesterday and  just clear coated them with a pour on about 3 hours ago and now im contemplating whether or not I should apply a second coat... is really nerve wrecking

[BobP]

Pour-on epoxies tend to brush on pretty thin unless you let the epoxy sit for awhile after mixing.  Multiple coats are pretty typical.  I know it’s hard to sit and wait while your topcoat hardens, hoping everything will work out right.  But after a few times you get used to it.  Finishing crankbaits will teach you patience!

[Chuck Young]

I have also noticed that some topcoats can occasionally interact with the  adhesive used to attach the foil. I have used E6000 t attach foil in the past. This is a fantastic adhesive. But I found it useless for attaching foil. Once epoxy was applied over it, it seemed to soften and cause wrinkles or worse. 

My solution to this problem was to use the same epoxy to apply the foil. 

What you have going on seems to be more of a moisture problem, as others have commented. But I hope this info also helps .