Sfrye37 Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 I am in the process of building a lure duplicator and I was wondering if you guys could give me some suggestions on what type of blade or cutter to use to get the best finish. Any help would be appreciated. I will be using a side grinder for the duplicator motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) I used a side grinder with a saw tooth blade. The advantages are that it cuts efficiently and is very cheap to replace. The disadvantage is that you are going to get ridges. The solution to the ridges is to reduce the feed of the grinder, but this increases the production time. I never got around to trying this. The best cutter for a fine finish would be a round nose milling bit, but this would not work with the side grinder. The disadvantage is that the bits are very expensive and they do dull. If I was to get back to the project, I would try to reduce the cross-feed of the grinder to 0.5mm (not sure how yet) and 'round' the corners of a fine saw disk. Personally the ridges were a minor inconvenience. When I started a new lure, I took a blank from the box and spent a minute or two on the drill press with a flap-wheel to knock some of the ridges down. I was not selling lures, so surface finish was not an issue. Plus, the epoxy top coat would probably eliminate the ridges and give a smooth finish. I suggest that you find out the range of cutter disks available and try them all out, and see what works for you. Dave Edited September 25, 2018 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 We, too, have made many copiers. There are many solutions, here is one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 I like the angle grinder solution. The only problem is the surface finish. You should show a close-up of the finished blank so that members can see what they are essentially dealing with, what they can expect. The finish is determined by the thread pitch of the drive. The standard pitch is 1mm. If you could obtain a drive screw with a 0.5mm pitch then the finish would be good enough not to need any post processing of the blanks. Unfortunately, the drive screw has to be of sufficient diameter so that 'bending' does not come into the equation. The speed of the drive screw also has limitations. Too fast and the stylus (master follower) will bounce. I found the limit to be between 60 - 65rpm. This gives about 1" per minute. Allowing for a couple of minutes for resetting and loading another stock blank, gives 12 - 15 blanks per minute. Post processing (flap wheel) is about 2 - 3 minutes per blank, giving about 6 minutes work per blank. So, on average, 10 blanks an hour for a 3" lure. This is obviously not mass production standards, but as a prototype engineer, I can spend a day at the machine and produce 50 identical blanks without driving myself crazy with the machine. Enough to keep me busy for a few weeks of testing. For a low production process, you could probably do 200 lures completed per week with painting and assembly. Here is a pic of the product of one session on the dup machine after post processing. I did these for a paying customer. He declared that he was not satisfied and refused to pay. Experience told me that the blank bodies were too deep and thin, I guess he found out the hard way. Not as hard as I found out. Money up front next time, but I doubt there will ever be a next time. My time is too valuable. I sold myself short and got screwed. Yes, he was a TU member. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfrye37 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Thank you for the response. I am still building it and when it is complete I will post pictures and get opinions of the finished product. I am no engineer, I am just trying to figure out a way to make a few baits that is easier than carving and sanding it all by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Yes, you are right. The processing accuracy wants the best. Therefore, I made myself a CNC. The cleaning quality is much better and can withstand all dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Боливар said: Yes, you are right. The processing accuracy wants the best. Therefore, I made myself a CNC. The cleaning quality is much better and can withstand all dimensions. Is that a CNC duplicator machine? That would be the ultimate duplicator; no speed restrictions, no bounce, 0.25mm resolution or finer. I speculate that 10 cuts per second might be possible with vibration damping. That would produce a 3" body in 30 seconds, with a resolution of 0.25mm, not requiring any post processing other than rounding the nose. With twin cutters that time would be halved. I have such a machine in my head but have no CNC experience required to build and program the beast. TBO I am surprised the big manufacturing houses haven't built this before now. Dave Edited January 6, 2019 by Vodkaman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Dave, I bought a CNC machine for aliexpress. And a program was written to me by a friend. He put the processing speed into the program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Dave here the main thing that you want to create a machine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 06.01.2019 at 18:12, Vodkaman said: Это дублирующий станок с ЧПУ? Это был бы конечный дубликатор; нет ограничений по скорости, нет отказов, разрешение 0,25 мм или лучше. Я предполагаю, что 10 сокращений в секунду могли бы быть возможными с гашением вибрации. Это даст 3-дюймовый корпус за 30 секунд с разрешением 0,25 мм, не требующий какой-либо последующей обработки, кроме закругления носа. При использовании двух резцов это время будет уменьшено вдвое. У меня есть такая машина в моей голове, но у меня нет опыта работы с ЧПУ для сборки и программирования зверя. TBO Я удивлен, что крупные производственные дома не построили это раньше. Дейв Dave machine can be bought in China and the program can be ordered on site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 That machine, adapting a 3 axis into a 2 axis function is pretty much what I had in mind, the 3rd axis being the rotation. Obviously the machine in the video is capable of great detail, but this comes at the expense of speed. For turning out featureless bodies, my machine would still use the rotating saw cutter as used in the angle grinder type machine. I will view the other videos at my leisure. Great information, thanks for posting. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Using CAD models, direct into a duplicator really appeals to me. Speed is not an issue for me, so the dup in the video is looking very tasty, especially the detailing possibilities. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfrye37 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I am waiting on one last drive motor to arrive and my machine will be ready to try out. How do you guys make the master you are duplicating? Do you make a mold of the part you want to duplicate and then pour a master out of resin or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Sfrye37 - I carve my masters from wood, and harden with a coat of D2T 30 min epoxy. You must make sure the follower is not sharp or too thin, or not pressing too hard on the master, otherwise it will cut ridges in the master after a few hundred runs. The pressure of the follower contact must be as light as possible without bouncing. Too heavy and the master will suffer ridges. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfrye37 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 My issue with this is that I carved a bait and got it completely built and the action is great and it does exactly what I want it to do. I am not sure if I can carve anothe blank and get it right. This one was kind of an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Sfrye37 - in that case, a mold might be a good idea. Also remember that Bondo filler is your friend in this game. If you make a mistake on your master, you can add a coat of Bondo over the fault, and sand down as required. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Боливар Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 15.01.2019 at 11:15, Sfrye37 said: Я жду, когда прибудет последний двигатель, и моя машина будет готова попробовать. Как вы, ребята, делаете мастера, которого дублируете? Делаете ли вы форму детали, которую хотите дублировать, а затем заливаете мастер из смолы или чего-то еще? Hi. On the first video of the machine, I grind a copy from aluminum. And I already make a copy. On the CNC, I write a program and on it I grind out what I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfrye37 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 What RPM motor are you using to turn the master? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 Mine was round 65rpm. Any faster and the follower would bounce off the master. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfrye37 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 Well I got it done and it was a big failure. I built the frame that the grinder sits on out of aluminum angle. So it has flex in it and every time the tracer goes down the end with the grinder on it flexes and it cuts deep into the wood. I guess I have to get steel angle and start over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 I love that duplicator ........ do you have plans you could post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
