F&R Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 How do you get a perfectly smooth finish with D2T without tiny little particles protruding through the surface? I can’t tell what these little bits of contamination are. And I can’t tell they are there until the epoxy starts to cure on the bait. I clean everything well, use new brushes, new mixing containers, a clean mixing stick, tack cloth the bait and have no dust in the shop. I’m very frustrated. I’ve had the same issue with brushing on Diamond Coat using the the ‘tap the can’ method. The only way I can get a perfect finish is by the old tried and true method of dipping the bait in various MCU products. But, like a lot of you guys, I’m tired of dealing with the MCU problem of curing in the can after exposure to the atmosphere. I’m trying to convert to D2T to get a more durable finish on my flat sided balsa baits. Any ideas would be sincerely appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 It might be residue in your brushes, even though they are new. Try "washing" them in denatured alcohol before you use them, and then blow compressed air across them to dry them and get rid of any loose stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 Prob not your prob but make sure the epoxy is 80-90* in this weather. Add 6 drops 100% pure acetone per 20g total epoxy (that's like enough to clear a 1.5 squarebill. By thinning it you will have to turn the bait by and every 10 min for an hour or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD_mudbug Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 I don’t know if you do any bait sanding near where you clear coat. You should try to set up your curing rack as far away as possible from where you are doing any sanding. Sanding, especially with a power sander, creates dust which will suspend in air for a while. I think the heat given off during the epoxy curing attracts some dust. I have a white bait that had some tiny reddish brown specks in the clear coat that must have come western red cedar I had sanded the day before. I don’t have a sander with a dust collection setup. I try to sand outside with my sander on a portable work bench. In the winter if it is too cold to sand outside, I sand in the shop doorway with my belt sander pointed outside so most of the dust blows out. You can try to minimize dust by periodic vacuuming of work area surfaces including shelves and walls, or use Swiffer dusters. Make sure your shop-vac has a dust collection filter or bag so you just aren’t blowing dust around the room. I know it's a pain to do cleaning. Maybe try putting a canopy or shelf just above the curing rack to prevent dust falling on it. After sanding, try waiting a few days before clear coating. You could trying mixing a small batch of epoxy in a small plastic container in a clean room, lay something across the top. It won’t be an airtight seal but should keep out dust. This way you could see if the epoxy you have is bad. I have run into epoxy that was bad from the store. I have also ruined a new package of D2T by leaving it in my car on a very cold night. After you clear some baits, pour any excess epoxy into a disposable container and cover like above. Pop the epoxy out of the container when it’s cured. You will have a clear specimen to look at and compare to the lures to see if it is air-borne dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&R Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks you guys. Those are all helpful ideas. I’ll try them ASAP. I’m always impressed by the generous sharing of knowledge and experience from the TU members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Are you sure it is not air bubbles, a common problem. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Pictures of the bait, if you can get good pictures of the top coat, will help. Bristles are too easy to see and would easily be removed during top coatings. Bubbles never resulted in a finish that I think of as protruding particles as usually just the opposite with little smooth craters/dimples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I never really get bubbles in the Epoxy but these on the bottom showed up the other day. Not as obvious in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&R Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 No they’re definitely not bubbles. I’ve checked with a magnifying glass. On closer inspection they look like tiny bits of dried/ cured epoxy. I’m going to try to strain both epoxy parts through a paint strainer before mixing the next time I clear a bait. Maybe there are particles in the bottle. I’m not sure I’ll be successful though because of the high viscosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I don’t think it’s contaminated epoxy if it only shows up on one area of your bait. And you could see it in the resin or the hardener before you mixed it. The problem more often is dried bits of epoxy being shed by your brush, or other debris in the brush. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I have observed what you are seeing in the past once based on your newest description. It was with some Gorilla Glue Epoxy being used on a wood working project. I first thought it was my mixing (however never had this occur with the D2T 5 or 30 minute) so mixed some more and still had it happen. Very minimal amount of the product would quickly cure and was granular in nature. I chalked it up to degradation/contaminant in the initial product; likely slightly different related chemical pre/polymer in the epoxide portion or potentially small impurity in the "hardener portion" that chemical reacts at different rate with the product. Either way based on the amount of epoxy I had used in the past just chucked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&R Posted January 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 Well I’m a dummy.. After very close inspection on my latest baits I find the “particles” are in fact tiny bubbles. Vodkaman you were right. I suspect I am not allowing thr Creatix/ Wicked paint jobs to dry and cure long enough. How long do you guys allow for this? Are there other bubble eliminating tips besides thinning, gentle mixing and warming? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Make yourself a heat box! Or you can cure your paint with a heat gun in between coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladesandbaits Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 I will add this tip. After you are sure your baits are dry. When I use Devcon 2 ton I use 30 min. I stick each bottle (Part A and Part B ) seperately in to a solo cup and run hot tap water in the cup- let sit a few minutes then mix. I do this with etex as well. For me it goes on really smooth and never any bubbles. Regards, Blades 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, bladesandbaits said: I will add this tip. After you are sure your baits are dry. When I use Devcon 2 ton I use 30 min. I stick each bottle (Part A and Part B ) seperately in to a solo cup and run hot tap water in the cup- let sit a few minutes then mix. I do this with etex as well. For me it goes on really smooth and never any bubbles. Regards, Blades You can also put the two plastic bottles in the microwave for a few seconds to get them warm. When the components are more fluid, they are ready to use. Because they aren't mixed yet, the heat won't affect the final product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 If you heat epoxy in a microwave, do it very slowly and carefully. At some point the resin becomes a thin liquid and it takes a long time to cool it down. I avoid D2T bubbles by adding a few drops of denatured alcohol to the mix before brushing it on with a fine bristle artist brush. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkie Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Been using D2T for over 15 years as a topcoat. I have had the best success mixing in disposable 1 oz. medicine cups using disposable 1/8" brushes from Walmart or Hobby Lobby. Like BobP, I add drops of denatured alcohol to the mix before stirring. Here's the best advice - after the lure is fully coated and looks covered, fog the bait with your breath and watch the microscopic bubbles disappear. If the D2T is getting stiff and thick before you are done, keep an alcohol burner nearby to help soften it and eliminate bubbles. Also, it's best to apply in temperature between 70 - 80 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Most likely dust that has fallen on the bait during painting and is stuck to the bait. I wipe my baits real quick with a blue shop towel before I coat, takes oil and dust off. Then a tip I was told that has worked fantastically for me is to get a light coating on the entire bait with the brush, then hit it with the hair dryer and let the hot air and wind blow the epoxy all around the bait. Then work the excess from the nose to the tail (do this in a box or something, epoxy will fly everywhere) and hang to dry. You'll be left with a nice thin smooth finish with no bubbles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Those tiny bubbles are pretty common. I generally mix part A and Part B in a plastic solo cup then pour it all out onto a plate covered in tin foil and hit it a few times lightly with a propane torch. Once on the lure you might need to hit again with the torch. If you let the epoxy sit on the tinfoil a few minutes most of the bubbles will come out. Also, Make sure the wood is sealed otherwise you can get some bubbles escaping from the wood into the epoxy. Good luck. RM Edited January 23, 2019 by RiverMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootermcbob Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 3:13 PM, BobP said: If you heat epoxy in a microwave, do it very slowly and carefully. At some point the resin becomes a thin liquid and it takes a long time to cool it down. I avoid D2T bubbles by adding a few drops of denatured alcohol to the mix before brushing it on with a fine bristle artist brush. Does this make it easier to apply? I am having a hard time even finishing two baits with the D2T as it is getting very thick and hard to apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbird Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 I have to do one at a time or it starts to thinken and not spread easily by the time I am on my second bait. I mix by weight and I mix 1.1 gram per bait for standard 2" crankbaits. When doing it by weight you should use the recommended ratio (resin:hardener) of 1.2:1 for dev2ton. .6 grams resin to .5 grams hardener 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 If you heat epoxy components, it accelerates the hardening process, so I like to keep things at room temperature. Thinning the mix with a little denatured alcohol extends the brushing time by a minute or two. I usually mix enough epoxy for two baits. Sometimes I can coat 3 if I’m in a hurry (pretty rare). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 From my April 2018 post: "I have now finished 300 baits with just 2 1/2oz of each part of Devcon 2-ton epoxy. Included in this number are 30+ spooks, sammy's and WP's. I use 2 oz. plastic cups. Place a cup on a digital postal scale and set the tare. Then weigh out 145g of hardener and 155g resin. Mix the epoxy for 30-40 seconds, then add 4ml of 91% isopropyl alcohol. Mix another 30 seconds. For application I wear a 5 mil latex glove from Harbor Freight using my index finger only. I have a small craft paint brush to hit tight spots gripping with my other fingers. Using this mix I can finish do 8-10 baits in 10 minutes depending on size. The isopropyl extends the work time also by 4-5 minutes. All baits go on a rotisserie for 30-40 minutes, then get hung to complete curing. I achieve a fairly thin coating so the blank's scales and gill plates show nicely." Yes you can feel the surface textures of the plastic blank. After using this finger method of application I would n't use a brush again! Update: After having a season that 4 of us made hundreds of casts with Warts, 1.5's and DT's in river and lake rocky bottoms I can attest this finish has not chipped or released in any manner. Of course some have break-in scars and scratches, but without finish coming off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Riverman has it right. DO NOT use acetone. It will attack the chains in the epoxy and weaken. It will also lift the paint off your lure. It's a polar solvent. NO Isopropyl alcohol either. Yeeks. Really bad. Denatured Alcohol in drops. It will not react is the biggest reason why. The bubbles are from mixing. Use a plastic stir stick, not wood also. There are many tricks to doing epoxy finishes on lures. Too many. https://www.google.com/search?q=isopropyl+alcohol+to+thin+epoxy&oq=isopropyl+alcohol+to+thin+epoxy&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.13327j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 GOOD read... https://epoxyworks.com/index.php/thinning-west-system-epoxy/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastman03 Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Salty's that last link is a fascinating read! I'm sure that research would extend out to any of the epoxies that we regularly use for lures. I think the scientists who carefully formulated those products would be shuddering at our need to simply mix volatile chemicals into the epoxy to make it more viscous. Obviously, doing so would be sacrificing some part of the characteristics of the epoxy. Also, by trying to get a more waterproof layer by thinning for penetration, we can actually do the exact opposite! Gentle heat seams to be the best way. Thanks for the read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
