titanium spinner bait wire

[wootonc]

I am looking to make some spinner baits out of titanium wire 3/8 1/2 3/4 in size any recommendation on what size wire i should purchase to use for my wire form. thanks

[cadman]

I don't know off hand where you can get the titanium wire. However I do know, that if you are going to bend it, you must heat the wire until it is red hot. Bend where you need it, and then stick it in sand to cool. By letting it cool in sand you will strengthen (forge) the wire. If you cool it too fast you will make the wire hard and brittle.

[smalljaw]

I wrote about this a very long time ago and I don't think it has changed yet.  I'm a spinnerbait junkie, it is my favorite lure and it was the one that got me started in making my own tackle. Anyway, after I figured out the spinnerbait and how to adjust it and changing wire diameters and blade spacings, I decided to look into titanium wire forms and I learned a lot. The first thing is titanium is very brittle in raw form, to make wire forms it is  cut to length and then bent and then it is put through the tempering process.  After that the body is poured and then the top  loop on a titanium wire form is then bent enough to get the clevis on, then the beads and then the swivel and blade.  I'm telling you this because anyone that has used a Terminator long enough has either found one with a top loop with a big gap or they didn't notice it and reeled in a bait the lost the swivel and blade. That happens because  the loop wasn't bent all the way during the tempering process and once it was tempered it can't be closed because it retains its shape which is why it was used for wire forms to begin with.  With that said, it likely means you will have to buy titanium wire forms already made and bent, and then go through the hassle of trying to get the blades and spacers on. Cadman told you how the wire would have to be tempered but you would need to heat up the entire wire to an exact degree and then have it cooled down at a certain rate or it would be junk.  This is the reason you don't see many titanium baits on the market because it costs a lot to make them and for the small manufacturer and home hobbyist it just can't be done unless you find the wire forms already made and I don't remember ever finding any when I looked for them. You aren't the first to want to make them in titanium but look around and see how many there are on the market, you'll be shocked to know that there isn't many around because it isn't easy and it is costly to do. I don't mean to try to dissuade you from looking into it but I think this is feasible just yet but if you can find a way to do that would be awesome.

[mark poulson]

I found a way to make my spinnerbaits hold up better, without having to resort to titanium wire.

I bend my spinnerbait wire closed at the R bend to get a 60 degree+- angle, instead of 90 degrees.   I use #6 Indiana blades on the back,  with smaller Colorado blades on the clevis, and they keep the blade up so I can fish them at lower speeds.  That way, I can use the 60 degree bend and keep the blades closer to the hook and trailer, which I think makes for better hookups.

Then I lock the spinnerbait body in my fly tying vise, so I can work on it more easily.   

I use 28 gauge gardening wire to close and reinforce the bend, putting three or four wraps around the blade wire, then four loop wraps around the back of the R bend, and finally another three or four wraps around the wire leading to the head.  I reinforce and lock the wire in place with crazy glue, being careful not to let it run down either wire too far.  I can fish the same spinnerbait for 20 fish or more without having the wire open up or break.

I also put a bead right up against the loop at the end of the blade wire, and lock it in place with crazy glue, to keep the split ring for the swivel from accidentally slipping through any opening in my wire loop.

This whole process adds five minutes to my building time, but it avoids the frustration of having a spinnerbait open up or break on a fish, and of bringing a spinnerbait back to the boat with the rear swivel and blade gone.

[Munkin]

They use to make a soft titanium wire spinnerbait head until Terminator shut them down. It does not act like snap back titanium wire nor steel it is a whole different animal. I have some of the 3/8oz heads around here I bought years ago for like $3 each. Let me see if I can locate them and I will post a pic.

 

Allen

[smalljaw]

8 hours ago, Munkin said:

They use to make a soft titanium wire spinnerbait head until Terminator shut them down. It does not act like snap back titanium wire nor steel it is a whole different animal. I have some of the 3/8oz heads around here I bought years ago for like $3 each. Let me see if I can locate them and I will post a pic.

 

Allen

 

I don't think it was Terminator, it may have been Stanley. I have some Stanley Icon spinnerbaits that had "tunable titanium wire", you could bend it just like stainless but it held up longer. As for those heads, the OP wants wire to make his own, the last time I researched titanium wire was over 10 years ago and it wasn't readily available. Also if you could get it, the wire is in a raw state so you would probably need a metallurgy degree and expensive equipment in order to temper it correctly.  I put making your own titanium spinnerbait wire forms in the same category as making your own Tungsten jigs, I know about the powder and epoxy method but you don't get the same properties as you do with sintered Tungsten. The major one is the increased density over lead which makes it harder so it is more sensitive and the same size weight is smaller than lead. So if you aren't getting that effect with the powder and epoxy, why go through 50X the expense? The same issue applies to titanium wire, even if you can find it and purchase it, you won't be able to temper it correctly so you don't get the advantage of titanium.   

[Munkin]

12 hours ago, smalljaw said:

 

  I put making your own titanium spinnerbait wire forms in the same category as making your own Tungsten jigs, I know about the powder and epoxy method but you don't get the same properties as you do with sintered Tungsten. The major one is the increased density over lead which makes it harder so it is more sensitive and the same size weight is smaller than lead. So if you aren't getting that effect with the powder and epoxy, why go through 50X the expense?   

 

Been there, done that! Cannot figure out how to get enough sithered tungsten into the epoxy to get the correct weight. They do like nice but you are right sithered tungsten is like $40lb. It does work well for hand poured flukes that I want to sink quickly though.

 

Allen

[smalljaw]

9 hours ago, Munkin said:

 

Been there, done that! Cannot figure out how to get enough sithered tungsten into the epoxy to get the correct weight. They do like nice but you are right sithered tungsten is like $40lb. It does work well for hand poured flukes that I want to sink quickly though.

 

Allen

 

I actually talked with a guy that goes to China to have Tungsten weights manufactured and he explained it to me. I was going to get the powder and do the resin deal but he told me that you can't get the same results as what happens during the sintering process. The Tungsten is mixed with 3% - 5% nickel and/or copper and then it goes into a special mold where it is put under extreme pressure. The pressure creates enough heat that it puts the nickel and/or copper in a molten state which is what binds the Tungsten together.  That process is the only way a jig can be made because the melting temp of Tungsten would also melt a hook so it is sintered together. That is also why you see 97% Tungsten and not 100%, that other alloy needs to be in there to bind it together, it is pretty interesting but something we couldn't do at home.

[Munkin]

9 hours ago, smalljaw said:

 

I actually talked with a guy that goes to China to have Tungsten weights manufactured and he explained it to me. I was going to get the powder and do the resin deal but he told me that you can't get the same results as what happens during the sintering process. The Tungsten is mixed with 3% - 5% nickel and/or copper and then it goes into a special mold where it is put under extreme pressure. The pressure creates enough heat that it puts the nickel and/or copper in a molten state which is what binds the Tungsten together.  That process is the only way a jig can be made because the melting temp of Tungsten would also melt a hook so it is sintered together. That is also why you see 97% Tungsten and not 100%, that other alloy needs to be in there to bind it together, it is pretty interesting but something we couldn't do at home.

What about the Keitech heads.

 

Allen 

[smalljaw]

1 hour ago, Munkin said:

What about the Keitech heads.

 

Allen 

 

I'm guessing the same rule applies to them as it does the United States. If a product that is imported and then significantly transformed in the country it can then be labeled as being made in that country.  So having raw Tungsten heads shipped from China and then painted and weed guards added and /or silicone would probably constitute a significant change allowing them to say "made in Japan", maybe?  I really don't know but I was told that the cost of making Tungsten jigs is so high it has to be done in China and that is where most of the Tungsten products come from. Judging from the price Keitech charges I would imagine it isn't made in Japan, after all the price of Japanese tackle is high because of exchange rates and their labor is high cost like America's.

[felipe Ibanez]

On 1/8/2019 at 1:20 PM, smalljaw said:

I wrote about this a very long time ago and I don't think it has changed yet.  I'm a spinnerbait junkie, it is my favorite lure and it was the one that got me started in making my own tackle. Anyway, after I figured out the spinnerbait and how to adjust it and changing wire diameters and blade spacings, I decided to look into titanium wire forms and I learned a lot. The first thing is titanium is very brittle in raw form, to make wire forms it is  cut to length and then bent and then it is put through the tempering process.  After that the body is poured and then the top  loop on a titanium wire form is then bent enough to get the clevis on, then the beads and then the swivel and blade.  I'm telling you this because anyone that has used a Terminator long enough has either found one with a top loop with a big gap or they didn't notice it and reeled in a bait the lost the swivel and blade. That happens because  the loop wasn't bent all the way during the tempering process and once it was tempered it can't be closed because it retains its shape which is why it was used for wire forms to begin with.  With that said, it likely means you will have to buy titanium wire forms already made and bent, and then go through the hassle of trying to get the blades and spacers on. Cadman told you how the wire would have to be tempered but you would need to heat up the entire wire to an exact degree and then have it cooled down at a certain rate or it would be junk.  This is the reason you don't see many titanium baits on the market because it costs a lot to make them and for the small manufacturer and home hobbyist it just can't be done unless you find the wire forms already made and I don't remember ever finding any when I looked for them. You aren't the first to want to make them in titanium but look around and see how many there are on the market, you'll be shocked to know that there isn't many around because it isn't easy and it is costly to do. I don't mean to try to dissuade you from looking into it but I think this is feasible just yet but if you can find a way to do that would be awesome.

Hi i think you are a Titanium specialist and i was wondering if can i ask you some questions about it?

If i got the correct USA Titanium wire frame and all parts of the spinnerbaits + great packaging, good brand concept, Can people pay US 17.99 per piece 3/4 oz?

I will appreciate your comments about it, thanks.

[Anglinarcher]

"Can people pay US 17.99 per piece 3/4 oz?"

Can they?  Yes.  Will they, I seriously doubt it.  Some custom fishing lures do cost that much and more, but Jigs and Spinner Baits can be purchased for a dollar at Walmart and we like cheep.  I have observed that $7 spinnerbaits and jigs just sit on most shelves at the fishing stores.

[ccblures]

I’m replying to this post because I have a few hundred titanium spinner bait wires from when I used to manufacture baits. I’m looking to sell all of my components and materials due to lack of time. These are almost impossible to find as when I bought them they soon disappeared. They are amazing!! Anyone that is interested can email me at ccblures@yahoo.com

my name is Justin. Thanks for your time. 

[aulrich]

Speaking of titanium wire (for leaders and stinger hooks) does anyone know of a bulk supplier, all I have found so far are suppliers that are more expensive than buying a retail pack of Not to Kinky leader packs.

[Fishin Big]

Tungsten and Titanium are manufactured in China for two reasons #1 money and #2 a total disregard for safety. 

Both have their own health risks by just working around. Both are more than highly explosive due the process of forging them under extreme pressure. Titanium is formed into what is called a sponge, Russia is one of the largest end users of Titanium. There are some plants in the US. Tungsten is more available in China, as well as many other materials not found abundant here. Tungsten is similar in certain processes as Titanium, under the circumstances that it is made makes it inherently very hazardous. The price of both reflects the difficulties of obtaining the raw materials and processing .

One thing that I do know about Titanium, is that I worked at a steel mill that used to make Titanium and it proved to be cost prohibitive. The main reason for the plants in the US is government use. The whole thing about buying or selling a product that has a Titanium coating is a  marketing strategy that uses the by product of the material. It can inhibit corrosion, and scratches only on a miniscule level.