RiverMan Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I have mailed out several dozen lures in the past months and until today haven't had a single one of them come back for repair. Well today I was following up with a few guys that have my baits and had a guy tell me that the finish on one side of a bait came off. I might expect this to happen with some of the photo-finish baits but this particular bait was painted with the airbrush/water based paints. He told me that he's caught many pike and some garpike on the bait too but most were small, less than 10 pounds. I asked him to send a photo but have yet to receive one....he's in Canada. I just can't hardly believe the Etex could come off with three coats! Im guessing that somehow it got a hole in the finish and let water get in against the water-based paint and then the whole side came off. This really concerns me...not sure if this is just a "freak" thing or something that's just a result of the serious teeth on these critters. Anyone else have something like this happen? Thx. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Either.. primer too thick or water under bait surface.... This can happen with Devcon or Etex. I would ask to see the lure if you will be replacing it. Lures are not indestructable, but the people who buy them think they are.... Part of knowing how to cast a bait.... These peole also get hung in the trees alot! LOL Look for marks where it was slammed into a rock, etc.... I always one coated etex... why the three? Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I will have to agree with Chip. Either you missed a spot while clearcoating or he knocked a hole in it somewhere. Water got under the clearcoat. Oh yeah, Chip....... He uses three coats because it is E-tex. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 So are you saying you have seen this happen before Chip? I just haven't had this happen before but then again I'm not producing a fraction of the baits you are. I use three coats because the baits are going to Musky Fisherman and I had hoped to not have a problem with exactly this! I have a guide useing my baits in IL and he's told me the baits are holding up very well so this took me by surprise. In the past I drilled holes through the etex with both photo and paint baits and tossed them in a bucket of water and both sat for days with no problems. So would you guys expect a bait with either photo or paint to fail if a hole forms in the clear coat? I always thought that the water would still have a heck of a time doing enough damage to ruin the bait in the event of a small hole. jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I had it happen on one bait and it was my own. It was a plastic trap. When using devcon, I had one wood bait do this as well. I had missed a spot where I glued the dive lip in and the layer delaminated right at the lip. I would think it is a freak thing and would not put to much worry into it. Thats two baits out of hundreds.... I dont think you have a problem... just an incident. Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I had it happen on one bait and it was my own. It was a plastic trap. When using devcon' date=' I had one wood bait do this as well. I had missed a spot where I glued the dive lip in and the layer delaminated right at the lip.I would think it is a freak thing and would not put to much worry into it. Thats two baits out of hundreds.... I dont think you have a problem... just an incident. Chip[/quote'] Forgot to say.... these things happen to brand name wood baits and plastics.... instead of chiping... they scratch like heck... or even chip.. lips break,,, etc.... Baits go through a lot of friction and banging.... They hold up pretty well considering.... Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Thanks Chip. Like I said I kind of expected this to happen at some point with a photo finish bait. Whether a guy is using a paper photo or slide decal it always seemed to me that if the image got wet it would dislodge and the whole thing would come apart. Of course if you are using a water-based paint like I am, I guess if water got in it would also likely fail at some point. Oh well, hope it doesn't happen again. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Hey Jed, I'd be really tempted to try a coat or two of clear acrylic over the photo lures before applying the E-tex.Just a thought. And you could try a more durable epoxy clearcoat. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoc Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Jed, Lot of smaller pike means lots of twisting. My bet is a hook eye screw loosen up and water leaked in. There by causing the delamination of the clear coat. How long did this guy use it before it failed. Or the finish was cut, letting the water get in. I would want to look at it to see what happened. If a good customer, buy it back by offering new one in trade. Wait to it gets to you before you do anything, ship a replacement and pay him back for his shipping it back to you. He can not ask for a better deal than that, now can he. Make the offer so that it gets back to you. Got to due some CSI work and find the failure. Also more details would be nice, days fished, how many hours in the water? How long was the e-tex set up before this one hit the water? Did it just let go from the paint, or did the whole finish let go down to the wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Dean, Perhaps you are right about the acrylic. You know tho when the photo is in place you can't peel it off, it rips into tiny pieces before coming off. Of course if the entire thing is wet for a period of time as water leaks through a hole this may change which would then cause the entire image to fail, that's scary. I would guess that an "all paint" bait would hold up better when water gets through a hole and starts working on it although I don't know this for fact, just guessing. Rich, You brought up some good points that I hadn't thought of. I was just going to mail out a replacement bait for him but think now I will ask to get a better look at it. He's a great guy and a "several return" customer and I will do all I can to make it right. Thank you! Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Over on the Saltwater front, many of us soak our plugs in boiled linseed oil and then have them dry out for about a week before finishing. The linseed will keep the water from getting into the wood under fishing conditions. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
out2llunge Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I had something similar happen on a jointed bait that I made. Interestingly, it was only the tail section that de-lam'ed. This bait was wroked really hard. I was trolling it at over 5 mph and it was responsible for 3 muskies on its 1st, 2nd and 5th times in the water. It was about a year later and many more 5 mph trips thru the lake before the tail section showed signs of trouble. BTW, I've got many baits (homies and factory) that are missing paint, epoxy, eyes, etc. and they still produce very well. I'm not so sure I'd want to give up that bait that the guy wants replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 It's funny you say that Lunge as the guy told me he's extremely happy with the action of the bait and fishes it all the time. He also ordered three more baits in the same letter! I seal all of the baits so I don't think that was the problem. You know last night I took a "misfit" photo bait and drilled about 10 small holes in it along each side and down the back. I then tossed it into a bucket of water and left it there until this morning. I squeezed that bait this morning looking for any signs of water entering and cannot see a bit of problem! Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Jed, I don't think water getting in is your problem....I don't care what you use to cover a bait made for Muskie or Pike...Your going to get chips,and cracks in your finish.Unless you've caught some of these fish,you can't believe the damage their dental work can cause. You need to find out if the finish started flaking away at the puncture points...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckarren Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Jed, Rich and Nathan is right, pike are the worst lure killers. If you keep putting it back in and out of the water. Soon it will start cracking from the water soaking in the wood and expanding the wood. The only thing you can do is like Husky said, soaking it in a sealer so the entire bait is sealed from water. I don?t care what bait or topcoat you use eventually all topcoats are gong to delaminate sooner or later. The devcon is sooner the e-tex is later. Chip the photo is of a small musky, now you can see why we put three topcoats on. -Corey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Nice Muskie !! I used to Barracuda fish in the Atlantic. Granddad owned deepsea boats. Since I moved to Michigan and started Pike Fishing, I learned real quick where not to stick your hand... (gills or mouth) Anyway, yet to catch a big lake muskie.... though did catch a smaller tiger muskie in the spring in an inland lake. Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckarren Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Chip that is not my musky. I have never kept a musky in my life. I got it off the web so people can see what we are faced with. I bet you get a rude awakening if you try and lip my fish of choice. -Corey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangeboy79 Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Over on the Saltwater front, many of us soak our plugs in boiled linseed oil and then have them dry out for about a week before finishing. The linseed will keep the water from getting into the wood under fishing conditions. Just my $.02 i used to soak my pike baits in boiled linseed oil and terpentine 50/50 mix but i experienst some problems with same wood bodies soaking up different amounts of oil = different weight. and some baits the oil leaking out causing bubbles in the topcoat. had any of these problems? now i use 2-4 coats of e-tex and im about to start useing propionte plastic as a primer just to be on the safe side! pikes rarely chew through 3 coats of e-tex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Yah... never kept a bass here.... We get pretty passionate about our fav. fish. Nice photo though. Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 What do you guys think about water getting in around the screw eyes? The way I build my baits now the screw eyes on the front and back are in place before the Etex goes on so they have a thick coat around them. The bottom screw eye hole though I use to hold the bait while it's drying and this screw eye goes on last without the benefit of Etex surrounding it completely. I do cover the screw eye in Devcon before screwing it in though and always felt this would seal it properly. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Jed, I set all my eye screws in Devcon,and had no problems.It's just those #@$%^$# toothy critters causing your problems!!!..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckarren Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Like Rich said, When you catch a fish and it thrashes around it may just turn it enough that the seal is broken. So now water can get in to the wood and speed up the destruction. If you seen the bait I have in the bait photos where a small 35? or 37? musky twisted my eyehook and straighten the 125lbs split ring. -Corey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Good point guys and well taken. You know my coworker from Ohio just brought me ina magazine called "Musky Hunter" and you would not believe this musky in there that some guys caught, it's as big as a gator, I'm not kidding ya! I would post the pic but not sure it would be ok by site rules. It's like 5' long and it's head is huge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Jed, You probably do this, but be sure and get that cutting oil off of the screw eyes, unless you want internal epoxy threads as opposed to an epoxy bond! Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 I haven't been doing that Dean, do you have a method for cleaning the screw eyes? Corey, That musky head is unreal, wow, cool pic! jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
