ChrisNick78 Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm thinking about starting to pour jigs. I unfortunately live in a state that has a ban on using lead. I've done research on bismuth/tin mix and the characteristics on the material. My questions are can it be powder painted and you need to add wax to it like lead for impurities. I also know the weights will be off as well. Any help and tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjigs Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Time to move. Don't let them run your lives.Jimmyjigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jig Man Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Fortunately for me we can use lead so I haven't used that mixture. However, my opinion is that most anything that can be heated can be powder coated. I'm sure guys like Cadman and Smalljaw have experience and will be along to give you some good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 hours ago, ChrisNick78 said: I'm thinking about starting to pour jigs. I unfortunately live in a state that has a ban on using lead. I've done research on bismuth/tin mix and the characteristics on the material. My questions are can it be powder painted and you need to add wax to it like lead for impurities. I also know the weights will be off as well. Any help and tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you I pour and sell bismuth/tin mix jigs. They are a P.I.T.A to do because the bismuth is very hard and some jig profiles are difficult to get out of the mold. Bismuth/tin jigs are expensive because of the cost of the bismuth. Yes you can powder paint them. You have to use lower heat temps other wise you will melt the jigs. Bismuth has a very low melting point. If you fish a lot of jigs like me, you will have to use a larger bismuth head to compensate for the weight difference. However the fish really don't care. As for the wax you are referring to, if this means fluxing the bismuth, I do not flux bismuth. Welcome to TU and Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjigs Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Cadman,Can you ballpark the price for a bismuth/tin simple jig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNick78 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 hours ago, cadman said: I pour and sell bismuth/tin mix jigs. They are a P.I.T.A to do because the bismuth is very hard and some jig profiles are difficult to get out of the mold. Bismuth/tin jigs are expensive because of the cost of the bismuth. Yes you can powder paint them. You have to use lower heat temps other wise you will melt the jigs. Bismuth has a very low melting point. If you fish a lot of jigs like me, you will have to use a larger bismuth head to compensate for the weight difference. However the fish really don't care. As for the wax you are referring to, if this means fluxing the bismuth, I do not flux bismuth. Welcome to TU and Good Luck. What temp and how long do you bake for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, ChrisNick78 said: What temp and how long do you bake for That is going to very, depending on how much tin, and other properties are in the bismuth you buy. I mix my own, however since I sell my jigs, I don't want to share my percentages. Don't take offense to this, as I am always willing to help. As far as temp and baking goes, all I can say is start low with (200 degrees) heat and go up from there. You will have to do some testing on your own to see what is the correct temp and the length of time the jig needs to be in the oven. I can't give you this info, because every oven is different and if I give you a number and you melt all of your jigs well, you know where I'm going with this. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Jimmyjigs said: Cadman,Can you ballpark the price for a bismuth/tin simple jig? Are you looking to sell these or are you looking to buy? There are a lot of variables here. Painted, unpainted , what kind of hook, skirted complete with weedguard ready to fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNick78 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, cadman said: That is going to very, depending on how much tin, and other properties are in the bismuth you buy. I mix my own, however since I sell my jigs, I don't want to share my percentages. Don't take offense to this, as I am always willing to help. As far as temp and baking goes, all I can say is start low with (200 degrees) heat and go up from there. You will have to do some testing on your own to see what is the correct temp and the length of time the jig needs to be in the oven. I can't give you this info, because every oven is different and if I give you a number and you melt all of your jigs well, you know where I'm going with this. Good Luck. No offense taken at all. Thank you for the info greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaspumper Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Google roto metals for prices. Also lead melts at 621 deg and bismuth at 520 deg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNick78 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, gaspumper said: Google roto metals for prices. Also lead melts at 621 deg and bismuth at 520 deg. I have I see the have ingots for lead free fishing jigs that's bismuth/tin mix. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, ChrisNick78 said: I have I see the have ingots for lead free fishing jigs that's bismuth/tin mix. Thank you If you are going to buy the fishing bismuth mix, please post how it works out for you. I was thinking of switching over but have not done that so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNick78 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, cadman said: If you are going to buy the fishing bismuth mix, please post how it works out for you. I was thinking of switching over but have not done that so far. Will do. I'll be a newbie to pouring jigs though. I make soft plastics as of now. But I want jigs for myself and maybe try to sell some not sure on the selling part yet. My wife wants to make the skirts she wants to help out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, ChrisNick78 said: Will do. I'll be a newbie to pouring jigs though. I make soft plastics as of now. But I want jigs for myself and maybe try to sell some not sure on the selling part yet. My wife wants to make the skirts she wants to help out Pouring is the easy part. I find polishing lead-free jigs cumbersome. Powder painting lead-free jigs is a challenge. Once that is all done. Skirting is easy. Just make sure to wire tie your skirts. If you sell them it is a selling point. Using rubber collars are fine for yourself, however the rubber dries out or loosens and the skirt falls apart. That doesn't happen with hand tying whether wire or thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjigs Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 21 hours ago, cadman said: Are you looking to sell these or are you looking to buy? There are a lot of variables here. Painted, unpainted , what kind of hook, skirted complete with weedguard ready to fish. Not actually buying or selling was trying to see if they are 30% higher than lead more or less. Jimmyjigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jimmyjigs said: Not actually buying or selling was trying to see if they are 30% higher than lead more or less. Jimmyjigs Cost wise I would say you are more like 50 % and this could be an exaggeration as I said lot of variables. Lead is roughly $2 per pound. Bismuth is now about $14-$16 per pound. Hooks stay the same no matter what you pour. Labor wise the bismuth jigs are slightly harder to polish and get a smooth head. Powder painting is the same for both. The only real concern is watching so you don't melt the bismuth head in heating to apply the paint and baking the painted jig. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Cadman, why do you have to polish the bismuth? How and what do you use to polish them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazultav Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 I’ve poured 1/8 and 1/16 weedless ball heads and 1/8 and 1/4 poison tails lead free with no issues. I’m using Rotometals lead free bullet casting alloy as they didn’t have the fishing specific alloy when I bought my ingots. I powder paint with a heat gun on high for 12-20 seconds depending on the jig size. I run the jigs over the gun until they become matte. Then I cure in a 300F toaster over for about 30min. Check out my results here: https://instagram.com/martin.brothers.hand.tied?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=12qlgz7deaf9q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Wetline Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 ChrisNick78, Living and fishing in Massachusetts, my learning curve casting and painting non lead alloys began in 2012 and I am now quite comfortable with materials and procedures. Over a year ago I responded to another MA angler/lure maker about my experiences casting and painting bismuth/tin alloys. You can read it here: https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/184855-pouring-and-painting-lead-free-jigs/ It's a lengthy post, but if you read it to the end, you'll have the information to get good results right off the bat. Don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjigs Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, mazultav said: I’ve poured 1/8 and 1/16 weedless ball heads and 1/8 and 1/4 poison tails lead free with no issues. I’m using Rotometals lead free bullet casting alloy as they didn’t have the fishing specific alloy when I bought my ingots. I powder paint with a heat gun on high for 12-20 seconds depending on the jig size. I run the jigs over the gun until they become matte. Then I cure in a 300F toaster over for about 30min. Check out my results here: https://instagram.com/martin.brothers.hand.tied?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=12qlgz7deaf9q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjigs Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Pretty! Jimmyjigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Will Wetline said: ChrisNick78, Living and fishing in Massachusetts, my learning curve casting and painting non lead alloys began in 2012 and I am now quite comfortable with materials and procedures. Over a year ago I responded to another MA angler/lure maker about my experiences casting and painting bismuth/tin alloys. You can read it here: https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/184855-pouring-and-painting-lead-free-jigs/ It's a lengthy post, but if you read it to the end, you'll have the information to get good results right off the bat. Don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. Great read! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeFishing Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 15 hours ago, Will Wetline said: ChrisNick78, Living and fishing in Massachusetts, my learning curve casting and painting non lead alloys began in 2012 and I am now quite comfortable with materials and procedures. Over a year ago I responded to another MA angler/lure maker about my experiences casting and painting bismuth/tin alloys. You can read it here: https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/184855-pouring-and-painting-lead-free-jigs/ It's a lengthy post, but if you read it to the end, you'll have the information to get good results right off the bat. Don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. I don't have to worry about lead free lures but I read what you had on BR and it was very informative. You never know when they may ban lead somewhere else and its always great to learn something new. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
