DoubleT Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 I have a question for you guys working with wood. I make musky baits out of cedar. What method works best for getting two part epoxy down in the bottom of the screw eye holes? I have been poking it down in the hole with a piece of wire which works but there has to be a better way. I would like to try disposable syringes/pipettes or something along those lines. Just wanted your thoughts and curious as to which method works best for you. I tried the search option but didn't find anything specific. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 I’ve never had a problem with poking epoxy into the holes with a piece of wire, but I use Rod Bond epoxy paste which I think is easier to inject. The problem with syringes is keeping them clean enough to reuse, unless you want the considerable expense of single use syringes that have a needle size large enough to pass epoxy. Really, I feel you are trying to fix a problem that doesn’t need fixing. A musky will probably have to break the wood lure in half before a screw eye epoxied with the “poke it in” method will fail. But if you are concerned, why not do a test to see how much force is needed to pull one out? You may be surprised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Thanks BobP for your thoughts. I'm not necessarily concerned with the screw eyes coming out of the lure. The screw eyes would likely wring off before screwing out. I have seen some testing on that. I was just curious if folks had a different way to apply the epoxy and get it into the bottom of the holes with something other than a piece of wire. The wire may likely be the best/most used method though, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 You might try running the eyes in and back out, to cut the threads in the wood, and then adding a couple of drops of runny super glue into the hole, to reinforce the threads. Then coat the eye's threads with gel type super glue, and run it back in quickly. Once the super glue sets, you will have a strong installation, especially if you leave the glue squeeze out around the eye, to act as a lock preventing unscrewing. I do that with balsa baits, and have never had one unscrew or fail. But I have never fished for musky, or even seen one in person, so I may be very wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Thanks Mark. How much time do you have to align the screw eyes. That's my only reservation with using super glue. Plus the screws are 1.5" long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Fisher Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 I make mostly resin baits but use the same process with wood. I use D2T 30 min and use a toothpick to get the epoxy down into the hole as well as coat the threads of the screw. I also made a eye screw bit for my drill driver so I can zip them in pretty quick and then a quick alignment, dab up the excess epoxy and on to the next one. I have used super glue before and it works, but have had some failures. It didn't work well for the hinge screws on some swimbaits I made, they kept loosening up and the bait wouldn't swim straight. Don't seem to have that issue as much with epoxy. For larger, heavier baits I want D2T. I can install 10-15 screws before a small batch of epoxy becomes unworkable. I used the 3 pc Harbor Freight nut driver tip kit to make the tools, one for .072 and one for .092. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Very good info. Thanks AZ. I will likely stay with my original method. I use the D2T 30 min as well. Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Drill pilot hole, feed in eye screw dry, cover threads with a liberal coating of cheap 4hr super strong 2 part epoxy from the hardware store and done. Have not had one fail and I use my lures on pike, salmon, and Lakers mostly (wish I had musky close). I do this for both cedar and resin poured baits. I also don’t recommend super glue on large fish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted May 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 Thanks Hillbilly. Good info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 we start a pilot hole. put epoxy on screw eyes and install. always set screw eye with the opening forward. if the screw eye ever opens a bit your hook/fish stays pinned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 A long work time is one reason I like Rod Bond paste epoxy; its stays in gel form for at least an hour, plenty of time to install hardware and lips on a batch of baits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 Most often an epoxy with a longer cure time is also a stronger adhesive as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 I don't use screw eyes, but I use 30 minute epoxy applied with a syringe and a large bore needle to install twisted wire ties and hangers. This takes all the guess work out of this process as far as whether or not the joint has a 100% bond between the tie and the wood. It's probably overkill, but this is just one less thing for me to worry about. As far as cleanup is concerned it's not that complicated. I keep 2 medium sized pill bottles on my workbench filled with DA. One is "dirty" alcohol and one is "clean". By doing a series of fill and purge with each bottle I'm still using the same syringe and needle I've been using for years. I wouldn't recommend using 5 minute epoxy. It can be done, but you don't have much time to clean the syringe by the time you install and align your hardware Ben. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted May 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 34 minutes ago, RayburnGuy said: I don't use screw eyes, but I use 30 minute epoxy applied with a syringe and a large bore needle to install twisted wire ties and hangers. This takes all the guess work out of this process as far as whether or not the joint has a 100% bond between the tie and the wood. It's probably overkill, but this is just one less thing for me to worry about. As far as cleanup is concerned it's not that complicated. I keep 2 medium sized pill bottles on my workbench filled with DA. One is "dirty" alcohol and one is "clean". By doing a series of fill and purge with each bottle I'm still using the same syringe and needle I've been using for years. I wouldn't recommend using 5 minute epoxy. It can be done, but you don't have much time to clean the syringe by the time you install and align your hardware Ben. Thank you Ben. That's the info I was looking for. Does the syringe that you are using have the black silicone seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 25, 2019 Report Share Posted May 25, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 12:01 PM, DoubleT said: Thank you Ben. That's the info I was looking for. Does the syringe that you are using have the black silicone seal? Yes. The syringe I'm using is actually one that came in an ink refill kit for filling ink jet printer cartridges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted May 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 Thank you for the input folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybait Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I use twisted wire hangars also. (Most of the time) With twisted wire hangars there is probably 3 or more times more contact for the epoxy and wood. Most of the time I also either drill my hangar or line tie holes all the way through. If it is too far, say with a tail hook, then I drill the hole deep enough for the hangar, then I drill a vent hole in from the top of the bait. Holding the bait, tail up, I start 30 min epoxy in the hangar hole, then I warm the epoxy with my heat gun and keep adding epoxy until it comes out the vent hole. It doesn't take too long because there is no air lock like there is with a dead end hole. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted June 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/6/2019 at 10:08 AM, barrybait said: I use twisted wire hangars also. (Most of the time) With twisted wire hangars there is probably 3 or more times more contact for the epoxy and wood. Most of the time I also either drill my hangar or line tie holes all the way through. If it is too far, say with a tail hook, then I drill the hole deep enough for the hangar, then I drill a vent hole in from the top of the bait. Holding the bait, tail up, I start 30 min epoxy in the hangar hole, then I warm the epoxy with my heat gun and keep adding epoxy until it comes out the vent hole. It doesn't take too long because there is no air lock like there is with a dead end hole. Great info. Thank you sir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scavenger Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 I saw a gentleman on youtube make a thing like an icing bag. Basically he cut the corner off a clear sandwich bag and used it to shoot epoxy into his lure holes. Just tossed it when he was done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 I guess you could use a dedicated epoxy syringe to force the epoxy down into the hole, provided you use Barry's vent hole method so there is no air trapped under the epoxy. Mudhole sells epoxy syringes. Cleaning the syringe afterwards would just be a matter of flushing it with denatured alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 You don't need a vent for air to escape when filling holes with a syringe. Just make sure that your needle is long enough to reach the bottom of the hole before you start injecting epoxy. That way the hole fills from the bottom and pushes the air out as it fills up. I use the needles from an inkjet printer ink refill kit. They're about 21/2" to 3" long and will reach the bottom of any hole on the baits that most of use build. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleT Posted June 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 I gave the syringe method a shot. I tried it with Devcon 2 ton. I used a 16 gauge needle which was the biggest that I could find. It worked decent until the epoxy started to thicken. It was a nightmare after that. I think I was able to get the epoxy in about 6 holes before it quit working. I went back to my old method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Anyone ever test the holding strength of their eye screws? I have not experienced failure yet but I am curious on what the breaking point is and think it’s time I do a test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said: Anyone ever test the holding strength of their eye screws? I have not experienced failure yet but I am curious on what the breaking point is and think it’s time I do a test I have not had a screw eye come out of any bait I've made for the last 20 years, including balsa baits. But I have had occasion to unscrew some, and it take effort. I will continue to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, mark poulson said: I have not had a screw eye come out of any bait I've made for the last 20 years, including balsa baits. But I have had occasion to unscrew some, and it take effort. I will continue to use them. Only past failure I had was on an early cedar salmon plug with a chinook but it was smaller hardware/crazy glue combination against 30lbs chinook. Up graded to larger eye screws and epoxy for my large species baits and no issues since on fish up to 50lbs. I still plan on testing for my own curiosity and those who doubt eye screws when asking for me to build lures. Being able to provide a weight of failing point might save debates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
