canuck 2 Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Hi Guys. I made a couple of different spinner baits using buzz bait wire frames.I added a solid clevis, blade and metal bearing beads ahead of the 1/2 oz head on each of the models . The weighted poured head was on the bottom wire on both styles . The only difference between models was I turned the wire frame up side down changing the line tie on point from top wire to lower wire. They turned out looking great and I was excited to get them into the water for testing. The top blade performed great spinning easily on both types but the lower blade in front of the head just waffled around and would not get into a rotation regardless of how fast I retrieved the lure. I tried a quick rod jerk acceleration once the lure hit the water with no success. Tried cupping the blade to increase lift still no rotation. The blades are offset in front of each other about an inch with the lower blade being first in line and then just behind above the head and hook the main blade on the upper wire.I thought that each blade would react like an inline spinner and pick up and spin freely once retrieved. Don't fully get why at this point the bottom blade will not turn. Especially ones with the pull point / tie on point being on the lower arm directly in front of the weighted head. Thought I would put it out there and see what people think / suggest. Sorry not yet able to put pics up of lures ,hope I described the build enough to get the idea. I have build enough baits to know what clevis and blade s work together and have worked through several two blade inline problems but this one is making me scratch my head. Looking for any input /feed back Will try and get pics up to help but I'm not great with phones and computers. Thanks in advance for you wisdom and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Try using compressed air to test your blade versions in the shop, to see if you can find something that works. Hold the air far enough away that you don't blast it, just enough to get it to turn. It's not foolproof. I still have to water test every plopper tail I carve, and modify them until they spin at low speeds, but it might help you find something less obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Thanks Mark thats a great tip. Never thought of using air. Will save a lot of trips to the river bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, canuck 2 said: Thanks Mark thats a great tip. Never thought of using air. Will save a lot of trips to the river bank. Bear in mind, water is much more dense than air, so you'll still have to do water test, but you can do that with a kiddie pool of water, since you can pull your bait through it and get the blades to turn right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Thanks again .Hopefully the air velocity will generate enough pressure to start the blades and a water test will be the final check. Still a bit peculiar having that lazy blade . Will try and get a pic up of the lures to show you what Im working with. Something obvious to others may jump out that I am missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 " The blades are offset in front of each other about an inch with the lower blade being first in line and then just behind above the head and hook the main blade on the upper wire." To me, it reads that the lower blade is being affected by the turbulence from the head and hook. The blade needs clean flow in order to function correctly. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Do you have a pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 I'm sorry but I'm confused. It is a buzzbait body converted into a spinnerbait with the line tie directly in front of the head? I can't wrap my mind around this enough to get a mental picture. When you say solid clevis do you mean a folded clevis or stirrup clevis? I apologize but your description isn't helping at all and I'm guessing the design is just wrong and by that I mean the angles are disrupting the flow of water to the secondary blade. The other issue is that a buzzbait wire form usually uses much heavier wire so if you are using a smaller blade on a large size 4 clevis well it might not have enough to force the clevis to completely around the wire so the blade sort of just wobbles around in its current position. With a spinnerbait a lot of things have to mesh in order for them the run correctly, like the secondary blade needs the cupped side to be facing upward toward the sky. The clevis has to have a hole larger than the wire diameter but the blade needs to be large enough to be able to carry the clevis around. An example is a 1/4oz bait I made a long time ago, I made it on .035" diameter wire so I had to use a #3 clevis but I tried to run a small size #3 willow blade on it. The result was that the #3 blade did not spin and even a #3.5 had to be reeled really fast in order to get a good rotation. When I dropped down to .031" diameter wire and went down to a size #2 clevis with the #3.5 willow blade, well that worked really well, the smaller diameter wire allows me to use a smaller clevis that made it easier for my blade to carry or pull the clevis completely around the wire. I don't know the blade types or sizes you are using or clevis type but a 1/2oz buzzbait wire form is probably .045" to .052" wire diameter. If that is the case then there is a possibility the clevis is too small meaning the hole diameter is the same size as the wire diameter, it goes on the wire fine but it binds just enough the force of the blade isn't strong enough to carry it around. It could be a lot of different things but a picture would make it easy to pin point the problem as your description is hard to make sense of, at least it is for me and I apologize for not understanding what you did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Sorry for the unclear description smalljaw. I am attempting to put up some pics. All of what you have said makes sense.I may also have to move the blade and beads further up front of the head. Hope the pics come through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Sorry guys only one image came through.I will look at the stirup clevis hole to wire size as a possible drag causing the blade to stall.The blade dose rotate easily with a bit of hand movement rotation in the air at the bench.Just not in the water.Thanks for your help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 In most cases it is a clevis issue but I have experienced odd shaped bodies that robbed the spin from the blade if there was not enough spacing between the blade and body on some inline spinners in the past. Don’t know why this happens just experienced it and found the solution lol Something simple to test this is take a small piece of tubing cut a slit down the side so you can slip it on the wire as a spacer between the head and first bead. If this solves the issue you can cut the tubing a little at the time till you find your sweet spot. After that just use beads as spacers for next ones you build worst case this is something simple to test 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 I already see the problem and Hillbilly voodoo caught it. The blade on the lower wire is too close to the body and it may have to be moved to the upper wire. What is happening is the size of the body is breaking up the water flow behind the blade, look at a Musky bucktail and you'll notice how the spacers keep the blades toward the front, this is done to allow the blades to start faster and spin at slower speeds. When you retrieve the bait the force of the water flowing over the cupped side of the blade causes it to lift and swing around wire. Well on your bait the water is flowing over the blade but the body being too close disrupts the flow of water keeping the blade from fully rotating. Judging from the picture and looking at the size of the blades I would thing that you need to space that blade very close to the front of the wire for it to work. I'm guessing that you would need enough beads or other spacers that there would be about 1/8" of play between the end of the wire and the front bead. If that would work you would have an interesting design, I would add another blade to the upper wire so you'd have the single blade spinning on the lower wire and a double blade on the upper wire. It will look and sound like no other bait of that type and could really catch some fish, I know I'd try it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Thanks guys for your insight and opinions. i like the tubing idea for a test spacer to see if I can get the blade rotation to start and hold up. I was thinking along the lines of using a thread ball and changing its position on the shaft to get this figured out. If that works I will use a thread ball and a heavy chenille yarn ball winding and add scent to it as an added attractant. The two blade upper wire is definitely an awesome rebuild idea. I will post my results once I get a chance to get back to these. As always you guys and this site are top notch.Can't say enough about being able to be a part of it as a member and hopefully contribute to this great hobby addition. Cheers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 I honestly hope you do post your results!! By doing that it will help us all, that way we know for certain that it was the body causing the blade not to spin. I'm 99% sure it is the body but there may be a different reason, I'd also like to hear the results if you get to fish with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Smalljaw. I certainly will. I mainly target pike so build my baits with1/2oz 5/8 and 3/4 oz heads to stabilize the larger blades that I like to use. 7,6,5's. It will be interesting to see how everything turns out with this style head.If it works I will also try to down size the blades and wire frame for shallower fishing and a different fish chasing bait presentation. Starting holidays tomorrow for a month so lots of time building/finishing and yes even fishing. Correction on the previous note : should read hobby addiction. Thanks again for your continued support and for doing so many great videos. I have learned a ton of stuff from your efforts and you have advanced my building style/comfort level immensely. Thanks to all whom endlessly contribute to the betterment of this craft and great site. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 Get everything thing spinning and you will catch pike. Honestly even with one blade spinning pike will eat it lol If you are thinking a version for shallow water large thin Colorado style will work well. They will keep the weight down and provide some lift..Just the first thing that crosses my mind with that style of lure Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck 2 Posted August 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 Thanks Hillbilly for you help and suggestions. The possibilities are endless and the creative juices are activated. I can see a lot of time in the shop happening real soon. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 No problem it would be just wrong if I let another Canadian suffer without trying to offer a little help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
School Master Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 From the pictures, I'm thinking your blades are on backwards? I've had the same exact issue when you put them on the wrong direction with a regular arm spinnerbait. The convex side should be the leading side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blll Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 59 minutes ago, School Master said: From the pictures, I'm thinking your blades are on backwards? I've had the same exact issue when you put them on the wrong direction with a regular arm spinnerbait. The convex side should be the leading side. Yep, the blade on the clevis is backward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 The one on the left the blade is definitely not backwards. The one on the right looks like it could be or it’s just the way it is laying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 They both look correct to me, you can zoom right up close for clarity. TO me, the one on the right is sitting concave side up on the table. Of course, could be an optical illusion. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 You are correct Dave easy to see once you zoom in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 I believe the problem is in the different angles of the two wire shafts. The straight line of pull is from the line tie to the big blade, which means the small blade is coming through the water at an angle rather than straight through the water. Try the air pressure both from straight on and at a slight angle to see if that makes a difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Musky Glenn said: I believe the problem is in the different angles of the two wire shafts. The straight line of pull is from the line tie to the big blade, which means the small blade is coming through the water at an angle rather than straight through the water. Try the air pressure both from straight on and at a slight angle to see if that makes a difference. Good eye Musky Glenn!!! I never thought about that and you are right, the blade arm rides almost parallel to the water surface while the body is on like a 30 - 40 degree angle. I'll bet that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
