cadman Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 This is for the guys who 3d print lures/crankbaits. I have been wanting to do this for a long time, and I finally got a 3d printer. I have the cad knowledge to do this so that is not the problem. I want to ask anyone who does this about durability and a few other questions to get me started. I am not looking to steal your ideas (I can make my own designs by trial and error), I am looking for some basics. With that said I am doing this so I can learn how to build, design and redesign 3d printed crankbaits. This will be a long road, but I want to see one of my creations come to life. I am also going to pursue this in jig making. Since I have designed some plastic molds for pouring plastics, I want to expand my knowledge. Anyway, If anyone has any hands on suggestions that they would like to share or is willing to help answer some questions. Please PM me or post here. Once I get all of this up and running, I will pass along all of my info that I have learned and post some of my processes. Thank in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 Heat distortion is a major problem for 3D printed molds, so plenty of depth to the mold halves. Not solid, but filled with a hollow matrix. The 3D software will take care of this. Lots of clamp holes, too many in fact. They don't cost anything and you can leave out a few if not required. I still have more development to do. Expect to take a few goes before you get it right, it is a learning process for sure. I need to get back to it. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Vodkaman said: Heat distortion is a major problem for 3D printed molds, so plenty of depth to the mold halves. Not solid, but filled with a hollow matrix. The 3D software will take care of this. Lots of clamp holes, too many in fact. They don't cost anything and you can leave out a few if not required. I still have more development to do. Expect to take a few goes before you get it right, it is a learning process for sure. I need to get back to it. Dave Hi Dave, Happy Holidays, I know you and I will have a lot of discussions regarding this. I got a lot of input regarding infill in the body cavity. 10, 15, 20 % etc. Naturally the more infill the heavier and stronger the bait. I have a lot of learning (trial and error) before I expect to get a good working model. I do have a generic question for you, since you have helped me so much in the past regarding mathematical properties, density and so on. With all of your knowledge in a different field than I, do you think that if I finally make a fully symmetrical prototype, will it be the same and/or similar to the second one, third one and so on? I do know that in the perfect world, if my infill was exactly in the same location all the time ( with the same type of webbing and percentages)and everything was symmetrically placed, I would have a perfect running lure. However, I am sure that this is not the case when an extruder is laying plastic and following a predetermined path. One last question (LOL). I know that I will be able to put indents or pocket holes for hook hangers and ballast weights in the plastic part. Once I figure out where the "correct" position is, do you think that this would be replicated correctly on every lure I make based on the same file. So if I make 30 lures of one shape, size and fill, and I place my hook hangers and ballast weight holes in the same spot on all 30, can I assume that all 30 would run the same way in the water? Dave thanks for your time. You and I will talk for sure. I have always admired your vast engineering knowledge. Edited November 30, 2019 by cadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Firstly, I have never 3D printed a body, I always 3D print the mold, or a master negative to mold a mold (which has never really worked for me). The reason for this is that I don't own a 3D printer and so my prints are from a shop and very expensive. For hanger holes, I would model slightly small and run a drill through, but that is just me. I am sure the lure will be repeatable, certainly as good as the best carvers could achieve. My concern would be the weight of the infill for the density of the plastic that you are using. I would be going for two half bodies glued together, therefore any infill will be stripped out for a genuine hollow bait. Ballast and hole positions will be absolutely repeatable for sure. You need to hear from other members who have actually printed bodies, for their experiences and advice. Dave Edited November 30, 2019 by Vodkaman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 I print bodies all of the time. I make mine in 2 halves like a regular production lure. No infill needed. You only need to design half of the lure and then just mirror it in your cad program. ABS filament works best for me. However, you still have to seal your lure before testing. You can do this various way. A good coat of cover white works fine for testing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Vodkaman said: Firstly, I have never 3D printed a body, I always 3D print the mold, or a master negative to mold a mold (which has never really worked for me). The reason for this is that I don't own a 3D printer and so my prints are from a shop and very expensive. For hanger holes, I would model slightly small and run a drill through, but that is just me. I am sure the lure will be repeatable, certainly as good as the best carvers could achieve. My concern would be the weight of the infill for the density of the plastic that you are using. I would be going for two half bodies glued together, therefore any infill will be stripped out for a genuine hollow bait. Ballast and hole positions will be absolutely repeatable for sure. You need to hear from other members who have actually printed bodies, for their experiences and advice. Dave Dave, I know where you are coming from. I was going to use indents in the body only so I can see where the hooks hangers needed to be placed. I was not going to put in thru holes. Thanks for all the help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, Hughesy said: I print bodies all of the time. I make mine in 2 halves like a regular production lure. No infill needed. You only need to design half of the lure and then just mirror it in your cad program. ABS filament works best for me. However, you still have to seal your lure before testing. You can do this various way. A good coat of cover white works fine for testing. Well that is very cool. I have a lot of questions about your lure. Would you be willing to help off line? PM me as I don't want to burden you with a million questions on this forum. If not no hard feelings, I don't want you to think that I want to capitalize on your design and or ideas. I have no problem doing trial and error. That is the only way to learn. On another note, I was going to start this two ways to see what worked better. Design a one piece body with a slot for a lip or a 1 piece molded body with a molded lip similar to what you have. My other design was to make two halves (yes mirrored in my cad software) and again with a slot for a lip or molded in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 I have no problem at all. BUT, my current lure is a progressive design, and I am not expecting any success without a lot of further development. As it is, the lip is designed to need trimming back gradually until the swimming action is achieved. It is a shifting weight lure, designed for 1/4" diameter ball bearings, 3 I think. It is designed for ABS material, so no problem there. If you would like to have a play with it, I will put a model together for you over the next week. I am working on another, non-fishing project at the moment. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 3d printers are great for prototyping, you can have a lure in your hand to test in less than an hour or two. For molding purposes I design the lure and mold as one process and create masters to create molds for resin and foam lures. The mold masters pictured were designed in CAD and printed on an SLA printer. SLA printing is expensive. A decent build volume for a SLA printer will set you back close to 10K just for the base model. Im not sure what CAD program you are working with but I have switched from Fusion 360 to Vetric Aspire and the design and build process is the bomb with Aspire!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted December 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 Thanks Blackjack, I am going in to the lure making process blind. I have read a lot of info in the hard baits forum and that has helped me a lot. I am sure there are many things I don't know. Being able to design lures in cad is easier for me than doing it by hand. Once you make 1/2 of a part, you can then mirror it and you have a perfectly symmetrical other 1/2. Also my 3d printer is coming in 2 weeks, so I will have a lot to learn there along with all of winter to practice and screw things up. As far as software goes I use Solidworks. I use it at my job everyday, and we build a lot of solid models along with surfacing, so the cad side will not be a problem. I've been doing cad for over 20 years, so hopefully all of those years will pay off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzatomo Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 G'day Fellas, Sorry to rez an old thread, I was using the search function for 3d CAD Programs, and this thread showed up. What I want to ask is if you can point me in the direction of the CAD program you are using to get that level of detail in your designs. Im using solid works atm, but its very limited in the amount of detail I can add to my models. Regards, Jake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Jazzatomo - Detail is difficult in CAD. Sometimes I will do gills and eyes, sometimes a pectoral fin (see my avatar) but rarely will I take it any further. With knowledge of the CAD software, it can take 1 - 3 hours to model up a plain body. To add in a lot of detail it can take another 6 - 10 hours on top. I am still occasionally trying to find a technique for efficiently adding 3D scale texture to a body, but have come up with nothing so far. I use Catia V5. This is a very expensive professional system. It is comprehensive and suited to many industries which makes learning a problem, sorting out what you need and what you don't. You can get it for free, in fact Dassault unofficially encourage this in order to get more people using the software. But, there are simpler CAD systems out there that will be easier to learn. Others will advise. Learning a CAD system is a major investment in your time. AND, if you only use it a couple of times per year, you will find yourself having to relearn all over again. CAD needs to be used regularly for the learning to stick. I am generally on CAD at least once per week. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Jazzatomo said: G'day Fellas, Sorry to rez an old thread, I was using the search function for 3d CAD Programs, and this thread showed up. What I want to ask is if you can point me in the direction of the CAD program you are using to get that level of detail in your designs. Im using solid works atm, but its very limited in the amount of detail I can add to my models. Regards, Jake Jake, I will echo, Vodkaman's comments as well. I use Solidworks at home and at work daily. You can create lips, scales, gill plates etc. However like Vodkaman said it is very time consuming. From a simple 3d model in 3 cad hours to 15-20 hours in surfacing cad hours. It can be done in Solidworks with surfacing. I have been using Solidoworks professional for 10 years and there are things on there that I still don't know how to use. It is a big learning curve if you want to make a lure that has scales, gill plates and more. Now once you have that figured out, you have to 3d print the model and there may be things that don't look proportional on the 3d printed model and so it's back to the drawing board. I have already 3d printed some items that I designed. Not lure related, but I need to print items to know how to use my 3d printer. I have a lot to learn on it but I am getting 3d printed items so that is a good start. I am currently printing with PLA which is a thermoplastic filament. I do know that it does not stand up to heat well, however that will not be an issue, as all my jigs and lures will be used in water. Anyway as time develops, I hope to post some of my findings here for others to try. If you want to talk about shop further, PM me your e-mail and we can stay in touch that way and talk more about Solidworks and 3d printing.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Cadman hit on a very valid point. Working on the CAD model, spinning and zooming, you think you have the model just how you want it. But, when you get the 3D print in your hands, you shake your head and mumble "No no NO!". The dimensions are the same, but there is a difference between the flat screen view of the 3D model and the printed model in your hands. I can't explain it away, but it is fact Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzatomo Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 Thanks for the reply fellas. I hear what you are saying, I may have to change my design approach and add the detail while I am still in the rough stages and hope that it can carry through to when I near the finished product. And I get what you mean about things not always looking the same when you print them out. My 4" Worm Definitely looked a whole lot smaller and in proportion once it was printed out I will definitely take you up on that offer @cadman. Always enjoy the process of exchanging ideas. Thought I would share some of my early designs. Only printed in .2mm, but I will mould them in the next week or 2 and see if I am on the right track! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
