fishordie79 Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Hey TU Folks! After much success pike fishing with a 12cm glider I made I am beginning to notice an issue that may or may not be related to the epoxy topcoat itself. I put a couple of coats of epoxy on this lure to make it thicker and hopefully help protect it from those 600+ razors in the pike's mouth. After my last session I opened my hard bait box to let everything dry out. I noticed a couple of days later the epoxy on the glider had begun to peel away where the fish's teeth had punctured the lure. Im not sure if water is getting under there and that is what is causing the peeling or if it is something else. Also, the paint isn't peeling away; just the epoxy. The body is made of linden/basswood. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and, if so, maybe you can help give me some insight into why it is occurring and how to prevent it. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 There’s nothing wrong with the epoxy, per se. Teeth penetrated the epoxy, allowing water penetration, which caused the wood to swell, which pushed the epoxy off the wood. Remedy: a thicker epoxy coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 I agree with bob Pike and any fish with teeth do a number on lures especially wood and worse yet with softer woods. With resin baits I use 3-4 coats of etex and wooden bait I use 5 coats. I know some go with more than 5 coats even. For wooden baits I use cedar My rule when it comes to building lures when you think it’s tough enough make it stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Try using a waterproof building material, like resin or PVC. They won't absorb water when the top coat is penetrated by teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishordie79 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 @BobP @Hillbilly voodoo @mark poulson Thanks to you all for verifying what I thought to be the issue. I have a ton of hard baits from Savage Gear, Westin, Abu Garcia, etc., that are all built for pike fishing. They all seem to have very thin coats of epoxy on them. I did a couple of builds where I put 3 to 4 coats of epoxy on the lures and you can surely see the difference in thickness. The thing is, with the name brand baits they don't take as much damage as my home made ones do and they don't peel at all. Are they using some kind of stronger epoxy or is their method of application somehow different than mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishordie79 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 @mark poulson that is the next step in my journey. I already have my silicone and molding clay. Just waiting on my resin to get here. Have you ever used polyurethane boards to build lures with? This is something I am entertaining but haven't tried yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, fishordie79 said: @BobP @Hillbilly voodoo @mark poulson Thanks to you all for verifying what I thought to be the issue. I have a ton of hard baits from Savage Gear, Westin, Abu Garcia, etc., that are all built for pike fishing. They all seem to have very thin coats of epoxy on them. I did a couple of builds where I put 3 to 4 coats of epoxy on the lures and you can surely see the difference in thickness. The thing is, with the name brand baits they don't take as much damage as my home made ones do and they don't peel at all. Are they using some kind of stronger epoxy or is their method of application somehow different than mine? What is your top coat? I don’t know what the commercial guys use but I don’t find they hold up very well my self. How long do you wait before you fish your baits? I also won’t put my baits in water for at least a week to be sure they cure fully Only other issues I can see possible is oil’s in the wood or not cleaning your bait before applying epoxy. even switching to resin over wood pike and other fish with teeth will destroy your finish if you only use one coat of clear. You will find everyone here who builds lures for big predators use multiple coats of clear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 3 hours ago, fishordie79 said: @mark poulson that is the next step in my journey. I already have my silicone and molding clay. Just waiting on my resin to get here. Have you ever used polyurethane boards to build lures with? This is something I am entertaining but haven't tried yet. I haven't tried resin or polyurethane boards for lure building. Once I switched to Azek PVC decking and trimboard (thank you John Hopkins) I stopped my lure material search. That's all I build with, except for the occasional balsa bait, because they're fun to make. I have never fished for pike or muskie, or even seen one in person, but I have fished for barricuda, which see to have a similar set of dentures. Their teeth scratch the chrome on salt water iron, so I imagine pike and muskie will do the same. I don't know how I would make a tooth-proof lure when fishing for those guys. I'd probably just be glad I got one of my lures bit, and didn't get my own fingers bit in the process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishordie79 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 @mark poulson Azek PVC Decking and Trimboard......Looking at the website now. Which of their products is it that you build with? @Hillbilly voodoo I think you are right my friend. I probably need to wage a two front war here by switching the building material from wood to resin or some other material while also waiting longer before throwing a bait into the water. What do you recommend using for cleaning a bait before the epoxy topcoat goes on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Make sure your paint has had plenty of time to dry and I just use a damp warm rag nothing special. I always worry about wrecking my paint job In all honesty your issue is not the fact you used wood but how you used it. There is lots of guys who build wood musky baits successfully. I build mostly for pike and big lake trout they both trash baits. The only reason I switch from cedar to resin pouring is I can’t duplicate my designs with wood. I still carve all my originals out of wood. Wood works and has advantages action wise in my opinion but you have to take the steps needed to make it work There is other possible issues that could have went wrong with your wood bait but if you are switching material no point digging into it Still don’t know the epoxy your using and it could be that it’s not a very durable option Keep things clean and don’t rush anything curing are things to keep in mind. Lastly if you want your baits to last against big predators with teeth don’t skimp on your clear coat. This my opinion from years of learning everything the hard way where I screwed everything up, cut corners, rushed, and basically made every mistake possible lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) On 12/22/2019 at 11:01 PM, fishordie79 said: @mark poulson Azek PVC Decking and Trimboard......Looking at the website now. Which of their products is it that you build with? @Hillbilly voodoo I think you are right my friend. I probably need to wage a two front war here by switching the building material from wood to resin or some other material while also waiting longer before throwing a bait into the water. What do you recommend using for cleaning a bait before the epoxy topcoat goes on? I use their Timbertech decking for bigger baits, like swimbaits and big glide baits, and their trimboard for smaller, more buoyant baits, like cranks and top waters. Check out this sticky: Edited December 24, 2019 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted December 25, 2019 Report Share Posted December 25, 2019 On 12/22/2019 at 3:09 PM, fishordie79 said: @BobP @Hillbilly voodoo @mark poulson Thanks to you all for verifying what I thought to be the issue. I have a ton of hard baits from Savage Gear, Westin, Abu Garcia, etc., that are all built for pike fishing. They all seem to have very thin coats of epoxy on them. I did a couple of builds where I put 3 to 4 coats of epoxy on the lures and you can surely see the difference in thickness. The thing is, with the name brand baits they don't take as much damage as my home made ones do and they don't peel at all. Are they using some kind of stronger epoxy or is their method of application somehow different than mine? many brand names on plastic,or poured lures use automotive clears for the thinner coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 25, 2019 Report Share Posted December 25, 2019 Plastic baits won't be damaged near as much as wooden baits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonch12 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 12/22/2019 at 12:12 PM, Hillbilly voodoo said: I agree with bob Pike and any fish with teeth do a number on lures especially wood and worse yet with softer woods. With resin baits I use 3-4 coats of etex and wooden bait I use 5 coats. I know some go with more than 5 coats even. For wooden baits I use cedar My rule when it comes to building lures when you think it’s tough enough make it stronger I just got some Etex to try out on my Bassswood Cranks. I have a slow turning motor to dry. Since you put 3-5 coats, how long do you wait in-between each coat? do you wait the full 24-48 hours or just until it is set after a few hours. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chonch12 said: I just got some Etex to try out on my Bassswood Cranks. I have a slow turning motor to dry. Since you put 3-5 coats, how long do you wait in-between each coat? do you wait the full 24-48 hours or just until it is set after a few hours. Thanks! If you are fishing for bigger predators with teeth I would use a tougher wood as well myself I don’t really have a set time but I would say about 8hrs between coats. I have not tried pushing a shorter time between coats and this is just the way I have done it since I started Main thing give it time to cure after the final coat. I wait a week to be safe before putting them in water or fishing them Honestly I would be interested what others have found is the min time between coats of etex because on days I have extra time it would be nice to speed up my process 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 This is what the ETI people say on their website: "EnviroTex Lite® is a water clear reactive polymer compound. It cures to a thick, glossy coating in about 8 hours at 70°F, and reaches full strength and toughness in about 48 hours. This durable, resilient material requires no polishing to produce a high gloss. One coat is all that is usually required for a deep attractive finish, however, two or more coats maybe applied one over the other by simply wiping the surface with a clean cloth and alcohol prior to re-coating." I always waited 48 hours before fishing one of my jointed swimbaits, to let the epoxy fully cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonch12 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said: If you are fishing for bigger predators with teeth I would use a tougher wood as well myself I don’t really have a set time but I would say about 8hrs between coats. I have not tried pushing a shorter time between coats and this is just the way I have done it since I started Main thing give it time to cure after the final coat. I wait a week to be safe before putting them in water or fishing them Honestly I would be interested what others have found is the min time between coats of etex because on days I have extra time it would be nice to speed up my process Thanks! Im excited to give etex a try, only got the 8oz pack to experiment. May get a pint of KBS Diamond next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chonch12 said: Thanks! Im excited to give etex a try, only got the 8oz pack to experiment. May get a pint of KBS Diamond next Best thing I have found for applying etex is a foam brush and brush it after again with the foam brush after 5min. I find this way I don’t get any voids or air bubbles This is just what I found works best for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, mark poulson said: This is what the ETI people say on their website: "EnviroTex Lite® is a water clear reactive polymer compound. It cures to a thick, glossy coating in about 8 hours at 70°F, and reaches full strength and toughness in about 48 hours. This durable, resilient material requires no polishing to produce a high gloss. One coat is all that is usually required for a deep attractive finish, however, two or more coats maybe applied one over the other by simply wiping the surface with a clean cloth and alcohol prior to re-coating." I always waited 48 hours before fishing one of my jointed swimbaits, to let the epoxy fully cure. Maybe it’s how I apply it but I always found it was still a little playable within 48hrs is why I wait longer maybe it’s all in my head lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 9:04 AM, Hillbilly voodoo said: Maybe it’s how I apply it but I always found it was still a little playable within 48hrs is why I wait longer maybe it’s all in my head lol It is a decoupage epoxy, designed to move with large wooden surfaces, like bar tops and table tops, so it remains flexible after it's cured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, mark poulson said: It is a decoupage epoxy, designed to move with large wooden surfaces, like bar tops and table tops, so it remains flexible after it's cured. I realize that it always remains flexible and is designed to. Like I said could just be in my head but it seems to get a little stiffer with time. Would not be surprised at all its all in my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 17 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said: I realize that it always remains flexible and is designed to. Like I said could just be in my head but it seems to get a little stiffer with time. Would not be surprised at all its all in my head I've found that my E tex lures do get harder over time, but they seem to hold up just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
