Bass & Musky Spinnerbait Parts - Need Help Please

[SmallieGuy]

I need help big time, if you guys can help me I would very well appreciate it.

I'm going to get into selling some of my custom lures, also giving away on my youtube channel. If I don't make a whole lot of money fine, I'm doing it for fun regardless, my lures already work I've caught some big musky and bass with them.

I just need sources for split rings, solid ball bearing swivels, hooks, etc...

I know everyone recommends the company Worth for ball bearing swivels, but do they have the option with 2 solid ring ball bearings swivels?  Anyways, I've tried the split ring version before and the split raings are weak, the split rings are cheap, the big willow blade I use slides off when casting. Some split rings already came separated too right from the packaging.  I bought them right from lurepartsonline.com  https://www.lurepartsonline.com/Spinnerbait-Swivels

I'm definitely not the first to complain about the worth split rings http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/25068-lakeland-vs-worth-swivels/

I saw these INFOF brand on DHgate.com and they have decent reviews 
https://www.dhgate.com/product/100pcs-american-hyper-ball-bearing-swivels/381091940.html?skuid=467522556004519946#ctabBox

Rather than using ball bearing swivel with cheap split rings, I've been using a ball bearing swivel with solid rings, then I use on heavy duty split ring at the end to attach the big willow blade,  it's a nice trick that I've seen other musky companies do to prevent from losing the willow or colorado blades.

I even do this for my custom bass spinnerbait, but use a hyper wire split ring instead, which is know for it's strength of springing back in place. Also I need a source for heavy duty split rings?  Both for musky and bass.  

And if anyone has a good source of deep cupped willow blades in the #8 and #10 size for musky let me know, I tried the regal #8 willow blade off lurepartsonline.com and they are too slow!  Speed is key for musky...   I think that's right, deeper cupping allow for better speed or is it vice versa?  

Also where does everyone go for reasonably strong stainless steel wire .051, .062 size in bulk along with bass wire for spinnerbaits?  You can pm me or post... Anyways, appreciate any help I get, as I need it. 

I think the rest I can figure out such as pouring lead, making jig heads, and soft plastic baits, a lot of great information on this forum already on that, I may try that bismuth/tin combo from rotometals.com.

I may need a source for  6/0, 7/0, & 8/0 hook size hooks in bulk for 1oz to 4oz jigs...   What brand does anyone suggest going with?  

I'm the type of guy that prefers quality for terminal tackle, especially since it will be musky and big bass, but I know sometimes you can get quality stuff from China depending on the brand and dealer.  

Edited January 20, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[SmallieGuy]

Well just talked to Worth on the phone, I guess they don't sell swivels with two solid rings, bummer. Maybe if they step up the quality of their split rings I wouldn't have a problem of losing my blades, but I guess that American company is out of the question. Bummer because I've heard they are best company for the ball bearing swivel itself.

Edited January 20, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[Kasilofchrisn]

Boy seems like a lot of questions.

Obviously your just strating out so that's expected.

I really like Rosco split rings. I usually find them on eBay. Rosco has a minimum order of 5,000 and I usually only need 1,000 at a time.

I use the #6xh on my saltwater jigs and they hold up to fish over 120# quite easily.

But they have a wide range of sizes.

You should also check out Barlow's tackle and Jann's Netcraft both have treated me well though I use Barlow's the most.

There is also the Musky shop. Never used them but I know they carry musky specific components.

Hook brands will depend on what hooks your mold calls for and/or what it will fit.

 

 

[SmallieGuy]

Yep, just starting to start off just selling, I've been making and bending for a few years now, just basically using the top quality tackle from traditional brick & mortar stores and some online shops.

Buying from Muskyshop.com for top dollar really not what I'm looking for, but thanks for the tip on Rosco, I'll check'em out, ebay has some pretty good stuff for bulk...  I noticed some companies actually just sell their tackle in bulk on ebay.

Yeah I know of Barlow and Jann's, seems like some of their stuff their tackle is priced in bulk at a decent price, but aren't they still bit of a middle man?  And their top brand of swivels like Spro and Sampo are just sold in small packs for standard fishermen.  

Anyways, I'm sure just buying from Sampo or Spro directly wouldn't be what I'm looking for due to their high price, but rather finding something of a step down in bulk at a reasonable price like Worth or Lakeland.  AFW seems like a good company and has a pack of 50 swivels for $30 at Barlow, that's not bad.... Maybe I'll run with them. 

Where's everyone buying their wire from?  Gotta be some good cheaper sources rather than just these standard make lure fishing shops...  Again private message if ya want...  

I think I'll get a 20 lb Lee pot, wasn't there a brand a step above, I know some complained of the Lee pots leaking a little and even the 10lb collapsing.  

drip - https://youtu.be/DAx_wiD7-EA

collapse after 3 years - https://youtu.be/k-fQ3cckKBE?t=73

Thanks for the tips Kasilofchrisn

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[Kasilofchrisn]

Nothing secretive about a parts supplier.

It's definitely not like a fishing spot as the vendors always have more to sell.

I have used Hagen's a few times with good results. That's another place to check.

 

But you also need to define what bulk means to you?

I buy components by the 100 count, 500 count, and rarely by the 1,000 count.

Some companies like Hagen's have minimum order amounts or charge extra for smaller quantities.

But if your looking to buy 5,000+ then Hagen's, Lakeland, Worth, and Rosco are your best bets.

Of course if your buying in those quantities you'd want to be sure that your going to sell that many.

Buying in bulk saves money but you can also get stuck with thousands of components you didn't sell.

I sold things for a few years but then realized the off season was slow and in season I didn't have time to fish myself because I was making stuff for other fishermen.

I either had to go bigger and start advertising, website etc. or give up the selling.

I had the oportunity to get featured in a magazine through a friend who was a repeat customer and all that but decided not to.

It wasn't so much fun anymore.

So I gave it up and now only make for family and friends and I'm much happier for it.

Of course this was all while working a job that actually paid the bills.

Good luck!

Edited January 21, 2020 by Kasilofchrisn

[SmallieGuy]

Probably around 100, 200, 500 quantities....

Yeah I've seen Hagens, I'll head over to their site again see what they got, I have their wire former along with knipex round nose pliers. 

"I either had to go bigger and start advertising, website etc. or give up the selling."

I'm well knowledgeable in this area, I've done web design,  also video editing, advertising, and have already sold millions of dollars worth in fishing tackle over the years as an affiliate...  I already have numerous websites up, I don't need help in this area, thanks though, looking for specific help on sources, so please keep the topic on hand.  If they don't sell, no problem, they won't go to waste regardless due giveaways on my youtube channel. 

"It wasn't so much fun anymore. So I gave it up and now only make for family and friends."

Yes, well aware of that side of fishing and lure making, it can lose it's fun...  But it's also fun when work doesn't seem like work and you enjoy what you do, I'm sure there's many on here that enjoy their lure making profession.  Pretty awesome you got the opportunity to be featured in a magazine, totally understandable if you didn't want to due to having a solid job and not having the time...  

Edited January 21, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[SmallieGuy]

Just got off the phone with Barlows tackle and they seem to be the only one's that carry the #8 willow with a deep cup that provides speed and runs deep for musky, they are currently out of stock, I asked them if they can provide the source where they get these, they said they can't reveal. But manager said they should be getting them back in stock another couple weeks, so that's a big plus.

https://barlowstackle.com/Willow-Spinner-Blades-Deep-Cup-Size-8-P726/

If a supplier sees this, please hit me up through private message, I've talked with a few other companies over the phone like LPO and they seem to just have the shallow cup.  

I suspect the shallow cup is great for spring and fall when musky are more lethargic, but summer and early fall the speed crushes it! 

I might give Hagens a call, but I'm sure there's are shallow cup too.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[smalljaw]

You do know you can buy the Worth swivels direct from Worth without the split rings on don't you?  They use a light size 2.5 split ring but you can add a heavy duty one yourself as the holes accommodate .035" wire. Go to LPO and get some jump rings or heavy split rings and buy the swivels without the rings, simple, and I believe Barlow's Tackle allows the option of buying the swivels without rings as well.

[SmallieGuy]

Thanks for the tip smalljaw, at one point I did put some heavier duty split rings on the Worth swivel and the monster #8 blade still ended up working it's way off the blade when I casted or reeled. The amount of resistance the #8 blade puts on these split rings is too much. I find that using a same size swivel as the Worth but with solid rings, then attaching a beefer split ring at the end is the best way to have an indestructible spinnerbait. This is basically the way the top musky companies make a spinnerbait now like Musky Mayhem. 

https://musky-mayhem-tackle-llc.myshopify.com/products/the-hinge

I suspect your method may work bass spinnerbaits with smaller willow blades, but there's even some of the top bass companies like Terminator which have a lot of complaints of bass fishermen losing willow blades because they work their way off the split rings when casting or catching fish. The best fix I've found is attaching a strong split ring like the hyper brand split ring to the end of crane, barrel, or ball bearing swivel with solid rings.  You'll never lose a willow blade again, case closed.  

It's a great ball bearing swivel, but really it would be more time consuming put on two split rings for every bait, it's so much easier to just buy a ball bearing swivel with solid rings, then put one split ring at the end where you attach the willow blade. 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[SmallieGuy]

Anyways, I'm still having a tough time finding a #8 willow blade that has a deep cup, anyone has a source or knows of the company that supplies Barlow, please message me. I'm waiting to hear back from a few companies...  

Would be nice to try a #10 willow blade as well, now that's would be cool.

Also is there a company that has a CNC injection mold for a 7" or 8" grub twister tail?  

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[smalljaw]

1 hour ago, SmallieGuy said:

Thanks for the tip smalljaw, at one point I did put some heavier duty split rings on the Worth swivel and the monster #8 blade still ended up working it's way off the blade when I casted or reeled. The amount of resistance the #8 blade puts on these split rings is too much. I find that using a same size swivel as the Worth but with solid rings, then attaching a beefer split ring at the end is the best way to have an indestructible spinnerbait. This is basically the way the top musky companies make a spinnerbait now like Musky Mayhem. 

https://musky-mayhem-tackle-llc.myshopify.com/products/the-hinge

I suspect your method may work bass spinnerbaits with smaller willow blades, but there's even some of the top bass companies like Terminator which have a lot of complaints of bass fishermen losing willow blades because they work their way off the split rings when casting or catching fish. The best fix I've found is attaching a strong split ring like the hyper brand split ring to the end of crane, barrel, or ball bearing swivel with solid rings.  You'll never lose a willow blade again, case closed.  

It's a great ball bearing swivel, but really it would be more time consuming put on two split rings for every bait, it's so much easier to just buy a ball bearing swivel with solid rings, then put one split ring at the end where you attach the willow blade. 

 

 

Lakeland manufacturing makes a line of pike and musky blades but the sizes will resemble regular blades. I have some size #4 willows and that are close to a size #6 regular willow blade. As for the Terminators, most guys lose the blade and the swivel because they are titanium and some of the baits don't have a completely formed top loop. So after casting a few times the split ring holding the blade and swivel eventually finds its way off the loop. I've never heard of any bass size spinnerbait having the blade come off the split ring, the swivel and blade falling off yes, just the blade, no. Now on a musky bait with a really large blade, well I have no experience with that but the Terminators losing the blade and swivel has been happening for years.

[mark poulson]

On 1/23/2020 at 1:42 AM, SmallieGuy said:

Thanks for the tip smalljaw, at one point I did put some heavier duty split rings on the Worth swivel and the monster #8 blade still ended up working it's way off the blade when I casted or reeled. The amount of resistance the #8 blade puts on these split rings is too much. I find that using a same size swivel as the Worth but with solid rings, then attaching a beefer split ring at the end is the best way to have an indestructible spinnerbait. This is basically the way the top musky companies make a spinnerbait now like Musky Mayhem. 

https://musky-mayhem-tackle-llc.myshopify.com/products/the-hinge

I suspect your method may work bass spinnerbaits with smaller willow blades, but there's even some of the top bass companies like Terminator which have a lot of complaints of bass fishermen losing willow blades because they work their way off the split rings when casting or catching fish. The best fix I've found is attaching a strong split ring like the hyper brand split ring to the end of crane, barrel, or ball bearing swivel with solid rings.  You'll never lose a willow blade again, case closed.  

It's a great ball bearing swivel, but really it would be more time consuming put on two split rings for every bait, it's so much easier to just buy a ball bearing swivel with solid rings, then put one split ring at the end where you attach the willow blade. 

 

 

I use the regular split rings I take off of crankbaits to put on heavier/stronger split rings.

The key, for me, is to find a ring whose wire is just small enough to pass through the swivel hole.  Once it threads on and reaches the gap between the wire ends, it won't rotate any further, but that's okay.  The swivel lets the blade spin anyway, and I don't lose big spinnerbait blades anymore.  

The swivels I get from Barlow's have a hole for .035 wire, but even a little smaller will still work.

[SmallieGuy]

Thanks for all the tips fellas, any tips on finding a 8-10" grub mold like this 8" grub from Bass Pro by Offshore Angler?

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/offshore-angler-swirl-tail-grubs

I found this one, it's an 8 inch mold, but the grub is just under 6 inches, too small. 

https://anglingai.com/8-single-tail-grub-mold/

This one looks kind of cool, but tail looks pretty small and not long enough.

https://baitmold.com/plastic-bait-mold/twister-tails/mold-t126-10-inch-250-mm/

This one looks to be more like it, but I don't know about holes in the tail, musky will shred that pretty quickly

https://baitmold.com/plastic-bait-mold/twister-tails/mold-t603-9-06-inch-230-mm/

I see other threads of musky anglers on here just making their own silicone molds and it seems when you go over 8", most just pour versus injected?

Edited January 25, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[kingmfg]

Greetings!   

Smalljaw is right. I have used thousands of Worth swivels with a standard wire #2

split ring with out problems. Although the last time i purchased them 200 out of 1000 did not turn. Quite a problem as lures were packaged when i discovered it.

I may be able to help you with lighter wires.Nitinol wires need a crimp sleeve to hold 

the swivel. Also some injected 8 inch grubs.

[SmallieGuy]

Thanks for chiming in kingmfg, I appreciate it, I'll have to try the worth swivels again then...  I may buy some heavier duty chinese swivels for now, that sucks 200 didn't end up turning.  

I see you're over in Minnesota, musky heaven, lol, cool, yeah it's bummer not more online mold shops carry musky molds.  I mean 8" could still be used for smallmouth bass and largemouth bass as well, I've got some nice 4 pound smallies on 7" tubes before. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[Musky Glenn]

I have run number 8 willow leaf blades on one ounce musky spinner baits with out any problem. With that large a blade I suspect you may be opening the split ring to much and stretching it open to far. I usually run 6 and 8 size together and slow roll most of the time. The problem with the deep cup is they create such a harder pull which makes them run shallower.  I believe the Musky Shop sells a Mogambo grub that may fill your need and save you hundreds on molds. Good luck

 

[SmallieGuy]

3 hours ago, Musky Glenn said:

I have run number 8 willow leaf blades on one ounce musky spinner baits with out any problem. With that large a blade I suspect you may be opening the split ring to much and stretching it open to far. I usually run 6 and 8 size together and slow roll most of the time. The problem with the deep cup is they create such a harder pull which makes them run shallower.  I believe the Musky Shop sells a Mogambo grub that may fill your need and save you hundreds on molds. Good luck

 

From my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong...

Deeper cup is going to travel faster through the water, deeper in the water column, and less resistance/pull.

Shallower cup is going to travel slower, higher in the water column, with more resistance.  

I've already tested the Hildebrandt Blade which seems to be a deeper cup #8 compared to #8 Regal Blade from LPO.  

The regal blade stayed higher in the water column and was very slow with a lot of resistance, the Hildebrandt could be reeled at the same speed, but travel through the water faster, yet still stayed somewhat deep, with less resistance.  

From what I remember, the #8 Hildebrandt blade was exactly the same size and dimensions of the #8 Regal Blade from LPO when I compared them on top of one another, but the Hildebrandt was deeper cup, almost felt like it had ridges near the edges. For all I know, there may not be another willow blade comparable to the Hildebrandt.

I suspect the shallower blade turns/spins in the water faster, but is slower traveling from A to B with the same reel speed using a Tranx or Beast baitcaster, and the faster turn/spinning rate causes more resistance/pull. Maybe I'm wrong, all I can do is try the Barlow Deep cup when they get their inventory in and see what happens. 

Speed is key for musky in the summer, but during the Fall that changes when the water temps drop, that slower Regal blade from LPO probably come in handy. 

On 1/20/2020 at 7:19 PM, Kasilofchrisn said:

Nothing secretive about a parts supplier.

It's definitely not like a fishing spot as the vendors always have more to sell.

I have used Hagen's a few times with good results. That's another place to check.

Yeah well, I wish that were true, so far Barlow told me they wouldn't give me the details of their parts supplier, probably because they probably don't want me cutting out the middle man, like I'm trying to maybe do with the #8 willow blades at MuskyShop.com

You ever seen the movie Blow, how Depp was eventually cut out of the picture after he told PeeWee Herman was his source? lol  

Anyways, there is a lot of stuff secret about parts suppliers and fishing lures, I'm not sure what planet you've been fishing on for the past few years. More fishing companies that come out with a spinnerbait on the market with a #8 blade, that means more competition, which means possibly less sales for certain companies, I could totally understand why some on here wouldn't be willing to share their sources. 

I've contacted a couple musky companies before because I was curious where they got their ball bearing swivels, never got a message back from them.

Anyways, appreciate the help Musky Glenn, appreciate all who's helped in this thread. 

Mogambo grub looks to be only six inches, but looks to be very thick. From my understanding, yes I'll save hundreds from having to purchase molds, but in the long run I'll save more money making my own.

Anyways, me just sharing that source of MuskyShop.com supplier was probably never shared on here, I'm sure others will be very appreciative in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if majority of the blades that are sold on these middle man sites like Barlow and LPO are made over in China, lol. 

So far I haven't heard back from that Chinese tackle supplier, may be due to the Corona virus, as I'm in contact with another Chinese company related to fishing and they said they're kind of in a quarantine process over in certain regions in China and currently can't work.

Edited February 4, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[smalljaw]

If you go to Barlow's and LPO look at the blades and look at Worth and Lakeland catalogs. Barlow's provides blade dimensions that you can match up, most of the blades those places sell are either Worth or Lakeland and they also sell the Hildebrandt blades. As for blade cup, a shallower cup will spin at slower speeds and start spinning almost instantly. They will spin faster than a deep cup because of how easily they spin and they have less lift so the baits will run deeper. Deep cup blades spin at a slower speed and have a wider arc so they have more lift, they have more vibration because of the wider arc but if you want the bait to run deeper a shallower cup blade is better. 

[Musky Glenn]

You are right the Mogambo is six inches, but right beside it is the eight inch Octogambo, and beside that is the ten inch Big N Grubs all made by Kalins. This was taken from the 2018 Musky Shop Cat. They also have # 8 deep cup blades.

[Kasilofchrisn]

When I said there were no secrets in regards to parts vendors I was specifically talking about the individual forum members who do not sell tackle parts.

It makes sense that those selling parts want you to buy from them and not cut them out.

But why would I as a private individual care if you buy hooks or blades from the same sources as me? 

And since there isn't a muskie within what 1,000+ miles of me I'm not going to be a competitor in the musky lure market.

Many of us on this forum do not sell so we do not care if you know who we buy parts from we just want to help others learn the hobby of tackle crafting.

Those who sell I can understand that viewpoint as I'm sure you can as well.

One thing you may find when dealing with wholesale vendors is that they may have minimum order amounts. Sometimes it can be 5,000 or 10,000 of a particular size.

I've bought such large quantities before and I'll likely never use them all.

Barlow's can sell/use that many as can the shops with jigs on the Walmart shelves.

But not the average Joe making a few for himself and his buddies.

And just because you mentioned it you were not the first on this forum to mention the MuskyShop.com .

I've seen several posts over the years where they were mentioned.

You may need to order a custom mold for your 8" grub. I know I had to go that route for my large saltwater jigs.

Especially since I make some of the world's largest lead based fishing jigs. 

I had custom molds made and I'm sure glad I did. They cost more but it's worth it to me.

Check out Shawn Collins customs or CNCmoldsnstuff.com .

Both can make what your looking for.

Spendy but quality and you'll be the only one with that mold design.

 

[SmallieGuy]

1 hour ago, Kasilofchrisn said:

And just because you mentioned it you were not the first on this forum to mention the MuskyShop.com .

Many of us on this forum do not sell so we do not care if you know who we buy parts from we just want to help others learn the hobby of tackle crafting.

I was referring to the chinese supplier for the #8 blades.... Yeah that chinese whole supplier may not allow me to purchase unless it's high amounts, states 5,000 pieces. I thought I shared the link, maybe I forgot to or it was edited by the forum admin, here it is again https://trophychina.en.made-in-china.com/product/ZXDxOKEoMVUd/China-Willow-Leaf-Spinner-Blades.html

I'm grateful you're willing to help, but I've been around the hobby for a very long time, not everyone shares the same ideology. 

6 hours ago, smalljaw said:

If you go to Barlow's and LPO look at the blades and look at Worth and Lakeland catalogs. Barlow's provides blade dimensions that you can match up, most of the blades those places sell are either Worth or Lakeland and they also sell the Hildebrandt blades. As for blade cup, a shallower cup will spin at slower speeds and start spinning almost instantly. They will spin faster than a deep cup because of how easily they spin and they have less lift so the baits will run deeper. Deep cup blades spin at a slower speed and have a wider arc so they have more lift, they have more vibration because of the wider arc but if you want the bait to run deeper a shallower cup blade is better. 

Lets keep this easy, because you seem to be concentrated on how the blade spins. I want a #8 willow blade that travels through the water fast and deep, less resistance when reeled.

You claim that a shallower cup will run deeper, but from my experience that's not the case,  the regal blade(shallower cup) vs the hildebrandt(deeper cup), the shallower cup runs higher in the water column and travels through the water slower. That's what I experienced when casting and reeling them.  I'm not positive the #8 hildebrandt is a deeper cup, I'm just basing it on what I looked and felt when comparing the two willow blades. I called LPO and they said basically all their #8 willow blades are the same, but different finishes. They run super slow, have huge resistance, and run higher in the water column near the surface. I need to match up a cheaper #8 willow blade to the #8 hildebrandt, that Barlow #8 deep will may be my last hope, however Musky Glenn says they have deep cup #8 willow baldes, so I may try those.  Glenn which willow blades are deep cup sir?  If you don't mind me asking, the .025 or .040?

https://www.muskyshop.com/blades/willow-leaf-spinner-blades-.025-gold/

https://www.muskyshop.com/blades/willow-leaf-heavy-duty-.040-spinner-gold/

Edited February 4, 2020 by SmallieGuy

[Musky Glenn]

Check pages 142 and 143 for deep cup # 8 blades. These are .040" and there are two or more types. Did you google to find any? They are not hard to find if you look around. Good luck. Musky Shop cat. from the 2018 cat. It may be on a different page on their current cat. You can view their entire cat. on line.

[SmallieGuy]

Thank you so much Musky Glenn, ah the only one's I found when googling are Barlows tackle, now you mentioned the .040" for that makes two.  

Luremaking.com offers colorado blades with deep cup

http://www.luremaking.com/catalogue/catalogue-index/blades-index.htm

Along with LPO 

https://www.lurepartsonline.com/Lure-Making/Shop-By-Product-Category/Spinner-Blades-Spoons/Spinner-Blades

Then there's Walleye Supply that supposedly has #8 willows, they don't mention the size of these blades, it's kind of strange they have #8 willow blades on a walleye fishing store? Are these actually #8s?

https://www.walleyesupply.com/8-willowleaf/

If you find any other #8 willow deep cup sources Musky Glenn, don't be afraid to message me or post the link here.  I'm gonna do some more searching...

[Musky Glenn]

You have found some, what different type blades do you want?

[kingmfg]

Blades