Basswood Crank bait turning on side on retrieve, Advice/Help Please

[Chonch12]

Hello,

Newer to crafting my own lures but have read a ton of information from this Forum, so thank you.

My recent batch of 4 lures I was tinkering with line ties through the bill and above. 3 of the 4 turned out decent. However the one likes to turn on its side on the retrieve. Would this most likely be caused by not having the weight centered in the bottom? Or something else I may be missing. The line tie and lip appears to be perfectly centered, especially when comparing to the other 3. The other thing I am thinking is the Etex coat may be heavy on the one side. I did 3 thin layers

Any advice, thoughts, or help on these would be greatly appreciated. I welcome all criticism as I try to learn every new batch I make. Only started this hobby over the winter. Here is a link for some pictures and videos of their action in the water.

https://imgur.com/gallery/JSg97CF

Thank you again

[Big Epp]

When this happens to me (more often than I would like!) it's been due to an un-centered lip or not enough weight.  I have one crankbait I made that would just turn over and surf up on its lip.  When I added some weight to the belly it stayed upright.

[Chonch12]

48 minutes ago, Big Epp said:

When this happens to me (more often than I would like!) it's been due to an un-centered lip or not enough weight.  I have one crankbait I made that would just turn over and surf up on its lip.  When I added some weight to the belly it stayed upright.

Thanks, this will float up and sit balanced it's only when I retrieve it will try and fop to the side... makes me wonder about my positioning of the weight, too close or far from the front

[mark poulson]

If it always rolls to the same side down, try bending the line tie a little at a time toward that side, to see if that help.  An off center line tie makes the lure have more lip surface on one side, and that is the side that it will turn away from.

[ravenlures]

On that size bait I would finish with KBS 2 dips, no etex.

Wayne

[Chonch12]

3 hours ago, ravenlures said:

On that size bait I would finish with KBS 2 dips, no etex.

Wayne

Any particular reason? I was thinking about trying KBS but price was holding me back

[Travis]

Etex is fine...  I like KBS better but nothing wrong with Etex and weight of the top coat not the issue based on your explanation and video.

Based on you pictures you have a few variables going on but the pictures may be deceiving.  The lure bodies and lips don't appear to be symmetrical and the lips placement/extension are different.  If the sides are not symmetrical you start to change how the water passes and well think plane wing and function. 

The bait you are having issues with:  If you were to draw  and line using the hook hangers to bisect the lure it would appear the one side of the body falls more to one side and additionally the  bill is also installed slightly in that direction as more lip extends to that side.  Personally I would just take some sandpaper and a sharp blade to the pool and take a little off the lip on the front/side  make a few casts and slowly work towards getting it moving right.  

Suspend strips (or golf head tape) are good to have in your testing kit also.

 

[Chonch12]

51 minutes ago, Travis said:

Etex is fine...  I like KBS better but nothing wrong with Etex and weight of the top coat not the issue based on your explanation and video.

Based on you pictures you have a few variables going on but the pictures may be deceiving.  The lure bodies and lips don't appear to be symmetrical and the lips placement/extension are different.  If the sides are not symmetrical you start to change how the water passes and well think plane wing and function. 

The bait you are having issues with:  If you were to draw  and line using the hook hangers to bisect the lure it would appear the one side of the body falls more to one side and additionally the  bill is also installed slightly in that direction as more lip extends to that side.  Personally I would just take some sandpaper and a sharp blade to the pool and take a little off the lip on the front/side  make a few casts and slowly work towards getting it moving right.  

Suspend strips (or golf head tape) are good to have in your testing kit also.

 

This is a great breakdown. Thank you very much. The picture is slightly deceiving the way they are laying, but you are correct in that the one I am having the most trouble with is not symmetrical and the lip is slightly off center. 

I will take the advice and see if I can tune it into something that works. I moved to pre made lips because I had a ton of trouble making my own and making them perfect.  

Any thoughts on the action of the other 3 lures? I know they also have some flaws but always like to get some feedback.

Thanks again

[Travis]

44 minutes ago, Chonch12 said:

Any thoughts on the action of the other 3 lures? I know they also have some flaws but always like to get some feedback.

Thanks again

Flaws...to me would be when the lure doesn't function/isn't fish able or if you are trying to make a dozen of the same bait and end up with actions/depth all over the place.   More importantly running into the issue like you have is how you become a good at making baits.

Shallow cranks are very forgiving in regards to building compared to trying to make a deep diving crank.  All three of your baits run true and for me that is the most  important part as they can fished.   

The chartreuse line tie above is one that I naturally gravitate towards.  Runs deeper,  nose down, and tighter action and I always like to crank boulders/rocks but would not have any problems throwing the other two shallow along lay downs this summer.   I would be happy with all three.  

 

[ravenlures]

I just like KBS for smaller lures etex for musky lures. Take a look at the head of the lure hold it up to eye level and see if the lip is on a angle towards one side or the other, it is easy to not notice but if it is off then your lure will never run true.

Wayne 

[Chonch12]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:07 PM, Travis said:

Shallow cranks are very forgiving in regards to building compared to trying to make a deep diving crank.  All three of your baits run true and for me that is the most  important part as they can fished. 

Thank you for the positive feedback, I appreciate it.

You are correct that the more issues I run into and learn to solve the better I will be the next time. It's actually funny to see my first creations compared to this most recent batch. a few months and they are night and day with improvements. 

This forum has been a great tool as well.

 

 

[Vodkaman]

What strikes me is that the lip angle that you have employed is that of a deep diver. So, my first question would be; are you trying for a deep diver or a shallow crank.

The second video seems the most stable, followed by the first video with the extremely wide action. The 3rd and 4th lures seem to be struggling, but the 4th is under control with limited retrieval speed.

On future videos; start off with a close-up of the lure so we can see the tow eye and lip configuration, and briefly show the rod tip position. This is so that we can see the potential depth that a lure will swim. You can test a deep diver in a shallow pool simply by controlling the rod tip height.

Obviously, you figured out that retrieval speed is important for a particular lure. All lures have an optimum speed that works. There is no lure that works for all speeds unless it is well within limits with a tiny lip. Lure retrieval speed is just as important a variable as lip angle, tow eye position and all the rest.

Design of a lure starts off with a basic specification:
Swim at a specified depth.
Swim with a particular action; fast, slow, wide, narrow.

Let us know what you are looking for.

Dave

[Chonch12]

15 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

Design of a lure starts off with a basic specification:
Swim at a specified depth.
Swim with a particular action; fast, slow, wide, narrow.

First thank you for the comment, always like to get feedback and advice on how to improve.

I was looking to get these in the 4-8 ft diving range. so more of a mid dive. As for the action I also like the tight fast action the best like the 2nd video. Although I am not against the slow wide wobble, so this was good to know for the future. I used a DT6 as a very basic comparison when drawing out this design. The problem was the final product did not quite match the drawing. I have some trouble with my band saw cutting straight so my lip angle moved compared to what I originally measured. I drew it out as 40 degrees using the middle of the lure as my axis meeting point. It came out to be 30 degrees. This is something I have been trying to figure out with my tools, how to get more precise. I think I just need to go a little slower and sand to completion to get exactly what I want. 

I purchased the lips pre made because I was having a lot of problems making a perfect symmetrical lip cutting and sanding myself. I have a few sizes

Size 5 (1 3/4" x 1 1/16") Lexan Lips - Rounded Style

Size 1 (1 1/4" x 7/8") Lexan Lips - Rounded Style

Size 3 (1 3/8" x 1") Lexan Lips - Rounded Style

The ones used on the lures are the 1 3/8 x 1.

15 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

On future videos; start off with a close-up of the lure so we can see the tow eye and lip configuration, and briefly show the rod tip position. This is so that we can see the potential depth that a lure will swim. You can test a deep diver in a shallow pool simply by controlling the rod tip height.

I will be sure to do this, pool will also be clean so it will be much more visible. Tested them the same day my wife and I opened the pool

[Vodkaman]

Ha! Yes, I saw the pool comments on the video site, amused me. I think the maturity of the water added character to the videos.

I agree, 40 degrees or even 45 would work for 4 - 8 feet depth.

I find making round lips rather tedious and difficult to control symmetry, but it is just a matter of taking care. I design all my lips with square lips, it doesn't make much difference, but many better fishermen here would disagree.

Frequency of the waggle is all about lip width; narrower = faster.

Videos 3 & 4 look like a tow eye position problem. The lip length and tow eye are a matched combination. You might be able to fix by simply trimming the lip shorter. Having your own test pool is a big plus. Gradually trim and test, and make notes of the changes.

As mentioned by others; symmetry is important and could be your problem. I stand over a square tiled floor to examine by eye. Place a 6" rule across the flat of the lip, this will magnify any angles that might be causing problems.

Dave

[Chonch12]

4 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

As mentioned by others; symmetry is important and could be your problem. I stand over a square tiled floor to examine by eye. Place a 6" rule across the flat of the lip, this will magnify any angles that might be causing problems.

Great advice again. Thanks so much. Back to the shop this weekend, hope churn out another set similar to these.