My continuing pursuit of perfection (and efficiency)...

[exx1976]

Can't remember how much of this I've already shared, so a brief recap to where I am today:

First, I tried to get my holes for hook hangers centered +/- .004" using a digital caliper.  What a fiasco.  Made a jig to mark the absolute center with a pencil, still couldn't freehand the drill press well enough, so then I made a jig to hold the blanks.  Should have just done that in the first place.  Wanted all the lures rounded over precisely, so I bought a router.  Wanted all the lures shaped precisely, so I made a jig and bought a flush trim bit.  Was worried about flat, parallel wood, so I bought an $800 planer.  Wanted a more accurate sander than the 4" bench sander, so I bought a 1" belt sander.

Last week when testing new lures with thicker lips, I noticed that my band saw was not up to the task of widening the lip slots.  The blade had too much deflection, and the widening cuts were not perfectly perpendicular to the table.  This resulted in crooked lip slots, which resulted in crooked lips, which resulted in baits that swim to one side.  Of course I didn't notice any of this until the lures swam sideways in the pool.  Ugh.

So I ordered a pile of stuff online.  Found a $200 saw blade with a .061" kerf.  Thin as a dime!  Also ordered some Kreg top track and stops.  Built a crosscut sled with an amazing fence. It cuts perfect 90s every time.

So then I made a jig to cut the lip slots using the fancy new blade.  Turns out, the $50 used table saw I bought has too much wobble in it, so the lip slots were NOT .061" wide.  In fact, since the wobble is more apparent the farther you are away from the center of the blade, the lip slots are somewhat triangular shaped, with the edge of the bait being the narrowest.  No bueno.  Glad I was testing with scrap.

So yesterday evening I went and picked up a Dewalt dual bevel sliding miter saw.  I just got done assembling everything and swapping the factory blade for the new fancy one I have.  This was not an inexpensive way to go, but my pursuit for perfection (and just as important - efficiency) knows no bounds.

Do I have all the tools yet?

 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Try a table saw just set the height and degree of angle you need. Cut your lip slot well your wood is a block. Does the trick for 1/8 lips if my memory is correct. Very fast and effective I just don’t do a lot of wooden baits now. I was clamping multiple blocks together at a time and cutting multiple slots in one pass. Also works for cutting faces on lipless baits. By far the most efficient method I have used

honestly I use a bandsaw when making my masters or wooden crankbaits for personal use. Just make sure your blade is as low as possible, really sharp , and cut the slot well your wood is still block form. I have no problem if I do this. Not near as efficient as the table saw but when building one bait for a master I am too lazy to get out the table saw

Just something to consider 

If you get into lips look into the router method using a guide block. I use 3D printed templates as guides

 

[eastman03]

Wow!  Sounds like you are set up alright!    Nice work.  Jigs make it all the steps easily repeatable, sounds like you are well on your way!  

 

[exx1976]

On 2/14/2021 at 5:29 PM, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Try a table saw just set the height and degree of angle you need. Cut your lip slot well your wood is a block. Does the trick for 1/8 lips if my memory is correct. Very fast and effective I just don’t do a lot of wooden baits now. I was clamping multiple blocks together at a time and cutting multiple slots in one pass. Also works for cutting faces on lipless baits. By far the most efficient method I have used

honestly I use a bandsaw when making my masters or wooden crankbaits for personal use. Just make sure your blade is as low as possible, really sharp , and cut the slot well your wood is still block form. I have no problem if I do this. Not near as efficient as the table saw but when building one bait for a master I am too lazy to get out the table saw

Just something to consider 

If you get into lips look into the router method using a guide block. I use 3D printed templates as guides

 

Perhaps you should try reading the entire post prior to replying.

[exx1976]

16 hours ago, eastman03 said:

Wow!  Sounds like you are set up alright!    Nice work.  Jigs make it all the steps easily repeatable, sounds like you are well on your way!  

 

Yeah...  Turns out I did NOT have all the tools yet.  The day after I bought that fancy chopsaw, the $50 table saw died.  So I just bought a nice Bosch jobsite saw since there's no way I'm getting a cabinet saw into my basement.  Just finished building a stand for it (The stand it comes with is on wheels), and plan to get it bolted up and set in place then get some bed.  I have to redo the miter slots on the outfeed table, and move the tracks on the bottom of the crosscut sled.

Also ordered a nice Freud 60T crosscut blade.

Should have my first batch of baits off the new machines by Sunday night to take to the pool again.  They will be thru-wire, and if they swim how I want, they are going up for sale right away.  Nothing really left to tweak at this point.  LOL

[Vodkaman]

Exx1976 - I do not understand you. I have refrained from posting this sentiment before.

You put a lot of effort in, making excellent contributions to the TU community, gaining a lot of respect. And then, you seem to have a brain fart and chop someone off at the knees for very little reason.

I am not blame free, I too have had my moments of indiscretion. I suggest you think your more acidic replies through before hitting the reply button!

Dave

[Big Epp]

For the first two years I made baits (basically up until right now), I stayed away from lipped baits due to the same struggle you described.  Now I'm going more aggressively in that direction, working on some 3" cranks and some 2" cranks modeled after the old Norman Quarterback.  I'm also working on some 7" muskie baits with lips.  It is touchy work getting things lined up square.  Whenever the lip slot is too wide I use pegs to square the lip up in the slot and then fill it in with super glue + baking soda. It's not precise or efficient, so I'm working away from that, but it works during the process.  

I have an old (probably 30+ years) table saw, and I've noticed the blade has a lot of wobble like you described.  Does anyone know a way to reduce this?  I'm going to make a cross-cut sled also, and essentially repeat your process.  @eastman03 mentioned using an old radial arm saw to cut the through-wire slots, I wonder if it might work (probably just like the miter saw you just got) for cutting lip slots.  However, if they are generally anything like the craftsman one I have, I would never EVER try to get one into a basement, at least not by myself.  The one I have is a beast!  I'll probably give that a shot next.  Cutting the lip slots on square blanks should make pretty simple work of it, maybe clamp several together against the backstop like @Hillbilly voodoo described on his table saw.  I bet I could cut a dozen at a time.  It would either be a great moment of efficiency or a catastrophic failure 

I'm working with the shop teacher at the school I work at on cutting wood blanks on the CNC router.  That's one way to get perfectly sized and squared lip slots, but a piece of kit I certainly can't justify at this point in the game.  It would also be a dynamite way to cut out lots of lips, or aluminum molds, or, or, or, or... So many possibilities...so little cash.

[exx1976]

5 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

Exx1976 - I do not understand you. I have refrained from posting this sentiment before.

You put a lot of effort in, making excellent contributions to the TU community, gaining a lot of respect. And then, you seem to have a brain fart and chop someone off at the knees for very little reason.

I am not blame free, I too have had my moments of indiscretion. I suggest you think your more acidic replies through before hitting the reply button!

Dave

A fair point, Dave.  I suppose we all have our buttons.  I figure it to be common courtesy that if someone takes the time to write something, someone who is replying should take the time to read it.  You and I both know that had that conversation taken place in person, everyone at the table would have sat slack-jawed at that first response.  "Did you even hear what he said?"  This is nothing more than the digital equivalent.

[exx1976]

18 minutes ago, Big Epp said:

For the first two years I made baits (basically up until right now), I stayed away from lipped baits due to the same struggle you described.  Now I'm going more aggressively in that direction, working on some 3" cranks and some 2" cranks modeled after the old Norman Quarterback.  I'm also working on some 7" muskie baits with lips.  It is touchy work getting things lined up square.  Whenever the lip slot is too wide I use pegs to square the lip up in the slot and then fill it in with super glue + baking soda. It's not precise or efficient, so I'm working away from that, but it works during the process.  

I have an old (probably 30+ years) table saw, and I've noticed the blade has a lot of wobble like you described.  Does anyone know a way to reduce this?  I'm going to make a cross-cut sled also, and essentially repeat your process.  @eastman03 mentioned using an old radial arm saw to cut the through-wire slots, I wonder if it might work (probably just like the miter saw you just got) for cutting lip slots.  However, if they are generally anything like the craftsman one I have, I would never EVER try to get one into a basement, at least not by myself.  The one I have is a beast!  I'll probably give that a shot next.  Cutting the lip slots on square blanks should make pretty simple work of it, maybe clamp several together against the backstop like @Hillbilly voodoo described on his table saw.  I bet I could cut a dozen at a time.  It would either be a great moment of efficiency or a catastrophic failure 

I'm working with the shop teacher at the school I work at on cutting wood blanks on the CNC router.  That's one way to get perfectly sized and squared lip slots, but a piece of kit I certainly can't justify at this point in the game.  It would also be a dynamite way to cut out lots of lips, or aluminum molds, or, or, or, or... So many possibilities...so little cash.

Removing the wobble depends on the quality of the saw in the first place.  Since I'm sick and tired of spending money on tooling (even though now it feels good to finally have them all - I think), the first thing I did was research how to take the wobble out of a saw.  MAN, am I glad I didn't go to all that work when the thing died the next day!  LOL  Anyhow.....

There are some videos out there if you google.  It basically amounts to lots of work with a dial indicator to determine the source of said wobble.  If the arbor is slightly out of round, that can be polished/honed true.  If it's one of the blade washers that not perfectly flat, the same can be done there.  It can also be that the blade itself has a wobble in it, and may just need replacing.

In any event, after realizing the amount of time that it would take, as well as investing in stones and tooling to hold them at precise angles and all that - and STILL running the risk of screwing it up since I'm not a machinist, I instead opted to purchase the miter saw.  A friend uses them to cut his lip slots, with great success.  It has worked very, very well for me also.

Now, on the other hand, if I had some nice, big, expensive cabinet saw, I likely would have gotten out the proverbial phone book and found someone that would make a house call to true up the saw.  But when I looked up the model of saw I had (remember, I bought it for $50), and saw online that the current generation of it was $148 brand new, I quickly deduced the build quality was not of such caliber as to really be as precise as I needed it to be anyway.

I'm not familiar with Radial Arm Saws, but my understanding is they are somewhat similar to the sliding miter saw that I purchased.  My only advice there is if buying used, take some material and try to make the cuts you're going to need to make to check to see if the machine is capable of doing so.  Just like when buying a lathe, you want to turn something down with it or cut some threads prior to forking over the $.

Edited February 17, 2021 by exx1976

[ravenlures]

Big Epp   You might want to check out your table saw bearings that might be where you are getting wobble. 

On blades I needed a 3/16" slot so I went to a saw sharping place and they made me a blade plus .003 for only 60.00 not bad, now that was a 5 years ago and it needs to be sharpened now. 

exx1976 You must understand that a planer will not make a board square only parallel, you have a better chance of a square board on a jointer or your table saw. Jointer first choice.

For cutting a lip I use a radial saw or the table saw depends on size of lure and angle. 

Wayne    

[Big Epp]

6 minutes ago, exx1976 said:

Removing the wobble depends on the quality of the saw in the first place.  Since I'm sick and tired of spending money on tooling (even though now it feels good to finally have them all - I think), the first thing I did was research how to take the wobble out of a saw.  MAN, am I glad I didn't go to all that work when the thing died the next day!  LOL  Anyhow.....

I'm not familiar with Radial Arm Saws, but my understanding is they are somewhat similar to the sliding miter saw that I purchased.  My only advice there is if buying used, take some material and try to make the cuts you're going to need to make to check to see if the machine is capable of doing so.  Just like when buying a lathe, you want to turn something down with it or cut some threads prior to forking over the $.

Great points!  Maybe I'll start with changing the blade (as that seems to be the simplest option), and making sure the motor is lined up well with the blade.  Mine is a belt driven saw, and the motor is on a round bar back a ways from the blade.  It's not fixed in place, and can move side to side.  I bogged the blade down pretty bad trying to re-saw a 4x4, so maybe that roughed some stuff up.

The radial arm saw I have definitely needs some cleaning and maintenance, so one it warms up I'll go out to the garage and give it some tlc.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Well it seems I unintentionally hit a nerve 

Good luck 

 

 

[exx1976]

10 minutes ago, ravenlures said:

Big Epp   You might want to check out your table saw bearings that might be where you are getting wobble. 

On blades I needed a 3/16" slot so I went to a saw sharping place and they made me a blade plus .003 for only 60.00 not bad, now that was a 5 years ago and it needs to be sharpened now. 

exx1976 You must understand that a planer will not make a board square only parallel, you have a better chance of a square board on a jointer or your table saw. Jointer first choice.

For cutting a lip I use a radial saw or the table saw depends on size of lure and angle. 

Wayne    

I have a jig to use a planer as a jointer.  Basically it's a long piece of MDF that you put a non-flat board on and use shims under the high spots, then a couple dabs of hot glue to hold the works in place.  One or two passes through the planer and you're all fixed up, then pop it loose and run the other side through as normal.

As much as I'd love both a jointer and a planer, I cannot justify the cost, nor the floor space.  Rightly or wrongly, planer was what I chose at the time, so I've learned to make it do what I need.

[exx1976]

Update:  Got the table saw crosscut sled back together, and installed a Freud 60T thin kerf fine crosscut blade.  Rearranged the shop to make processes flow a bit better.

Kicked out a dozen blanks tonight, should be able to start paint tomorrow.

I'll do a video of my current shop setup and the tooling that I'm using this weekend perhaps.

[Travis]

8 hours ago, exx1976 said:

Update:  Got the table saw crosscut sled back together, and installed a Freud 60T thin kerf fine crosscut blade.  Rearranged the shop to make processes flow a bit better.

Kicked out a dozen blanks tonight, should be able to start paint tomorrow.

I'll do a video of my current shop setup and the tooling that I'm using this weekend perhaps.

A good table sled is a must.  Definitely one of those things do it right and woodworking gets a lot easier. 

 

[ravenlures]

exx1976

Just remember a lot of the good lures were made by mistakes along the way. 

Wayne

[exx1976]

2 hours ago, ravenlures said:

exx1976

Just remember a lot of the good lures were made by mistakes along the way. 

Wayne

Oh trust me, I've made a LOT of mistakes thus far.  Unfortunately, none of them were good.  LOL